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  #1  
Old 7th March 2010, 14:27
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Faenor Faenor is offline
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Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Hi all,

in Osprey P-40 Warhawk Aces of the MTO (Aircraft Of The Aces number 43) at the page 30-31 is info about shot down of 8 Ju 88s near the Thelepte airfield.
Maj Mark E. Hubbard 2 destroyed
2nd Lt. Carl E. Beggs 1 destroyed
Capt. Boone 4 destroyed
2nd Lt. Rober H. Smith 1 destroyed

My question is, from which unit were this Ju 88 ? Have you some other info (name of crew, W.Nrs, codes) , some www links or info in some book.

Thanks for all reply

Faenor
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Old 7th March 2010, 15:26
Gizmo Gizmo is offline
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Hi,
As I know nine Ju 88s were shot down:
Six (3Z+EH, 3Z+IL, 3Z+AH, 3Z+NH, 3Z+MH and 3Z+FL) from I./KG 77
two (and one damaged) from II/KG 76
one from I/KG 76
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Old 7th March 2010, 18:23
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
Hi,
As I know nine Ju 88s were shot down:
Six (3Z+EH, 3Z+IL, 3Z+AH, 3Z+NH, 3Z+MH and 3Z+FL) from I./KG 77
two (and one damaged) from II/KG 76
one from I/KG 76
Thanks Gizmo for reply - all Ju 88s from I./KG 77 looks like from this combat with P-40 from 59th FS/33rd FG .

Have anybody some other info about this losses ? W.Nrs and name of crews ? and info about other losses from Gizmo reply ?

Faenor
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Old 7th March 2010, 21:13
RT RT is offline
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

9 Planes start for action , after bombs release they were bounced by P40, 6 possibly 7 were shot down

Remi
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Old 7th March 2010, 21:19
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

They started from Gerbini at 13h00, "accident" occured at 16h00 , british time

Remi
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Old 7th March 2010, 21:34
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Hi all,

is this photo one of this Ju 88 ? Pilots are from 33rd FG and date of photo is January 1943 :

http://www.ww2incolor.com/rating/3.5?g2_itemId=8882

Remi,

thanks for the time .
Any info about this incident is welcome.

Faenor

Last edited by Faenor; 7th March 2010 at 21:35. Reason: my mistake
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Old 7th March 2010, 22:31
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Quite possible the one under 2 men made prisoners


1 KG77 F Thelepte ostw, TUN,/Telepte / A FJ P40 n, bombenabw, JU88A-4 140052 3Z+AH

but ...

Remi
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Old 7th March 2010, 23:21
thenelm thenelm is offline
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

The KG 76 losses for this date appear to be training losses in southern France. The KIRSCH loss '3Z+FL' doesn't seem to be in the Gen.Qu. Losses. Anyone have the code for the BETHKE loss?

15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-14, 144193, Hanauer, Uffz. Rudolf, , KG 26, 9., gelbe F, 1T+FT, , , MIA with crew, cause unknown., B Uffz. Kurt Forsche, Bf Ogefr. Kurt Kaulbach & Bs Gefr. Günter Ditthardt, WNr. reported as 4193., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Schmidt, Achtung-Torpedos Los!, p.363, , (Mittelmeer), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140485, Stitz, Uffz. Friedrich, , KG 30, III., , DM+MC, DM+MC, , KIA, probably due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters. B also KIA, rest MIA., B Uffz. Siegfried Konstedt, Bf Uffz. Herbert Leidolph & Bs Uffz. Hans Stöckler, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (bei Algier), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140396, Labusch, Ofw. Paul, , KG 54, 4., weiße I, B3+JM, , , POW, cause unknown. B & Bs also POW, Bf KIA. Sortie to Fl.Pl. Tamet., B Uffz. Rudolf Fehl, Bf Fw. Hans-Jürgen Schlichting & Bs Uffz. Horst Stumpenhagen, 'B3+IM', B Hohl per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Radtke, KG 54, p.307, 359, , (Tamet-West), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140421, Blech, Uffz. Horst, , KG 54, 5., , B3+HN, , , POW, cause unknown. B & Bf also POW, Bs KIA. Sortie to Fl.Pl. Tamet., B Uffz. Werner Baumgart, Bf Uffz. Friedrich Gröger & Bs Ogefr. Viktor Lämmersdorf, Bf Kröger & Bs Lommersdorf per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Radtke, KG 54, p.307, 359, , (Tamet-West), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 142328, n.n., , KG 54, II., , , , , Damaged, cause not reported. B, Bf & Bs all WIA., B Ogefr. Paul Schröder, Bf Ogefr. Kurt Acker & Bs Uffz. Günter Niermann, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Radtke, KG 54, p.307, 359, , bei Bir Dufan, 80%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 142323, Korner, Ltn., , KG 60, 2., , P1+LK, , , MIA, cause unknown. Bf & Bs also MIA, B KIA., B Gefr. Forster, Bf Uffz. Reichel & Bs Gefr. Wochele, WNr. 2323 'PL+LK' per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , Ort unbekannt, 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 142333, Thiedke, Uffz. Johann, , KG 77, 1., weiße M, 3Z+MH, , , MIA with crew due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., B Uffz. Otto Ziehr, Bf Uffz. Walter Juwig & Bs Ofw. Kurt Scheffel, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140052, Erhardt, Fw. Andreas, , KG 77, 1., weiße A, 3Z+AH, , , KIA due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Bf also KIA, B & Bs WIA., B Uffz. Johann Gotthardt, Bf Uffz. Ferdinand Arweiler & Bs Uffz. Heinrich Koch, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 141097, Wagner, Uffz. Josef, , KG 77, 1., weiße C, 3Z+CH, , , KIA with crew due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., B Uffz. Ludwig Böhein, Bf Uffz. Helmut Krämer & Bs Fw. Fritz Fernau, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140419, Winkler, Ofw. Erich, , KG 77, 1., , 3Z+HN, , , MIA due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Bs also MIA, B & Bf KIA., B Fw. Adolf Grunwald, Bf Fw. Ludwig Lidi & Bs Ogefr. Hermann Bordsen, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 141035, Jäckel, Uffz. Kurt, , KG 77, 2., , 3Z+EK, , , MIA with crew due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., B Gefr. Ernst Köllges, Bf Uffz. Wolf-Dieter Grube & Bs Gefr. Hans Wippke, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, , KIRSCH, Ofw. Heinz, , KG 77, 3., gelbe F, 3Z+FL, , , WIA on this date in this machine., , RK., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Shores, Ring & Hess, Fighters Over Tunisia, p.154, , Telepte, b, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140453, Witter, Uffz. Johannes, , KG 77, 3., gelbe J, 3Z+JL, , , MIA with crew due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., B Uffz. Friedrich Winzer, Bf Ogefr. Helmut Schnackenberg & Bs Gefr. Wilhelm Schuster, , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , (Telepte), 100%, F
15-Jan-43, , Ju 88A-4, 140462, BETKE, Oblt. Siegfried, , KG 77, I., , , , , WIA with crew due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Notlandung., B Uffz. Karl-August Hansen, Bf Uffz. Kurt Schimpf & Bs Ogefr. Walter Hernig, RK., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , bei Tunis, 100%, F

Last edited by thenelm; 7th March 2010 at 23:26. Reason: editing, further request
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Old 8th March 2010, 01:50
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Faenor

Interesting colour photo. I had seen it elsewhere. I think this might be 140396 B3+JM - Read letters J.M on nose (a bit stylish to look like Arabic?) Besides two White stripes (colours of 4. Staffeln / II Gruppen), rather fresh looking camouflage, new replacement aircraft. By this time (15.01.1943) this plane was only apx. 3,5 months old...

thenelm

F Ofw. Heinz Kirsch loss is in GQM losses, just not this date! Likely he was only lightly injured on 15.01.43 (and if plane was under 10% damaged it was not recorded in GQM losses) - He was lost the following month in 3Z+FL

Last edited by edNorth; 8th March 2010 at 01:53. Reason: Addition of info
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  #10  
Old 8th March 2010, 11:32
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Re: Losses of Ju 88 15th January 1943

Hi Ed, are you sure Kirsch was lost in 3Z+FL 8.2.43 ... I have 3Z+HL W.Nr 141215 lost on this date.

But of course im sure you have more information than me.

Best regards,
Steve.
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