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Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 by Jochen Prien, Gerhard Stemmer, Peter Rodeike & Winfried Bock
incl. other work by Dr. Prien and his colleagues

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  #11  
Old 1st September 2019, 13:32
Rasmussen Rasmussen is online now
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Whereby also in the JCM book some mistakes occur with the work numbers / production blocks ...beside technical errors in the text.
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  #12  
Old 1st September 2019, 23:48
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Then the sharing of information and cooperation are in order. Corrections are then made for the benefit of all.
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  #13  
Old 2nd September 2019, 21:15
Rasmussen Rasmussen is online now
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Again from my old thread (2016) in LRG (additions and corrections):

p.4:
The formulation of the task to develop an new fighter was done by an "Entwicklungsgruppe" in December 1933. In February 1934 the Technische Amt of RLM addressed the specifications for the industry. In October 1934 the mock-up of the Bf109a was ready ...
p.12:
D-IIBA, W.Nr.808, the damage were 30%, the a/c returned to Ausgburg for repairs
p.19,20:
regarding "Flugzeugentwicklungsprogramm LCIIb" from 01.10.1937 were sent to Spain V3, V4 and V6 but not V5
p.22,31:
Fieseler in "Liepzig"----What's that? Fieseler produced in Kassel, far from Leipzig.
p.28:
regarding the same program (p.19) the V15 and V15a got an DB601 (called "Muster E1"), the V16 is mentioned with an Jumo210D as "Waffenversuchsträger"
p.40:
the "Baureihenbezeichnung Bf109" from 01.11.1942 called the "Bf109E-6" without the suffix "N" because the DB601N was the standard engine
p.43:
an E-7/R3 was't an official "Baureihe" regarding "Baureihenbezeichnung" - there were U-designations only
p.44:
the mentioned 106 E-7 produced by Erla were E-7/N
p.44:
the Slovakian "white 7" was the W.Nr.3317 (source: Railich, "13.(slow.)/JG 52")
p.45:
The "tropicalization" kits weren't mounted on the assembly lines but at first on repair industry and/or LZA Erding and Fl.H.Schleißheim. On June 1941 for example Erla didn't delivered E-version more.
p.58: "Two series were produced by the WNF, one with 137 examples (of the 170 planned, WNr 5621-5790) and ..."---IMHO this batch was delivered by Mtt.AG (see p.59)
p.59: "The 33 planes lacking from the WNF delivery would be produced by Mtt-AG as Bf109F-2s (WNr5756-5790) ..."---we find in the logbook Riedmeier the W.Nr.5671 (RC+EN) or W.Nr.5725 (ND+IN)--as an example--and in the logbook Kühnle many a/c's from the RC+Ex-batch, all in Regensburg and called as "F-1". (an little addition: the W.Nr.5751 and 5753 are called by Riedmeier "F-2" too.)
p.60:
By Erla the first Bf109F-2 was delivered in Dezember 1940 and not in February 1941, in January 1941 it were 5 and 21 in February 1941. In April 1941 were completed 188 and not 189. In June 1941 followed 30 a/c's because in May wasn't accepted not one. They had problems with delivery of "Randkappen" and problems with the engine.
p.61:
In June 1941 AGO hadn't completed 378 machines but 287. The last Bf109F-2 left the AGO-factory in November 1941.
p.64:
The designation "F-2/U1" isn't for sure "pure invention". In the "Baureihenbezeichnung" this is an a/c with "2 MG131 statt 2MG17". But ... an F-2/R5 there doesn't exist like the F-2/Z too.
p.65:
The F-3 not "seems to have been the same as the Bf109F-1" ... it was the same as the Bf109F-1 ... with an DB601E.
p.66:
The first F-4 left Erla in May 1941 not June.
p.81:
Regarding "Baureihenbezeichnung" was G-1/R1 "wie G-1 jedoch erleichterte Ausführung ohne Rückenpanzerung, ohne Abwurf - und Reichweitenaußenanlage, mit ungeschützten Blechbehälter" ... means not the Jabo-version, an R2 and R3 isn't mentioned
p.90:
The first G-5 left Erla im May 1943 not March 1943.
p.91:
The simplified cabin, the so-called "sichtverbesserte Kabinenhaube" (or better known as "Erla-Haube"), wasn't proposed by Erla only produced ... Erla was an so-called "Nachbaubetrieb" without an construction/development office. They had an "Änderungsabteilung" for modifications not more not less. The cabin was developed by Mtt.AG in Regensburg.
p.94:
The regular production of G-5 began in April/ May 1943 and stopped March 1944 (some a/c's were delivered in June but this were machines on repair in Antwerpen after the Big Week-raid from 20.02.1944 in Leipzig). In July/August followed an batch of G-5/R2/AS found by allied troops on 04 September 1944 in Antwerpen.
p.100/101:
The W.Nr.463141 wasn't an "official" G-6MW50 but an regular G-14. It was new built in October 1944 and sold as "G-14" to RLM--- nothing with repair. (What's an "simplified" cowling?) I'd guess it's one of the machines were delivered as trainer without the MW50-system (I believe it was in October - I must search for the document.)
p.106:
Most of the "official" G-6MW50 you find in the 413xxx-batch, since the 46xxxx-batch the a/c's were called "G14".
p.115:
Somewhere I have the document with the order to use the remaining G-6/U2-tubes in the following production ... nothing surprising.
p.116:
typo: 462000 not 762000
p.125:
If the W.Nr. correct then was it an G-4trop and not an G-2.
p.130:
The "two constructor's identification plates" (if the pictures with the two plates on the left site were meant) were 1.) the constructors identification plate and 2.) the well know plate for the "Änderungsstufe" (not an "Gerätenummer").
p.131:
Erla-Leipzig didn't radically redesigned the cowling...Erla produced the cowling - not more not less (see p.91).
p.133:
The curved line ended higher (not like the curved line on WNF-machines).
p.135:
The Erla G-10 got their DB605AS not in a repair shop, the a/c's were delivered "fresh" from the factory halls with this engine ... but there wasn't an official designation like "G-10/AS" that's correct.
p.168:
The batch with the W.Nr.15708 inside was delivered in July 1943 not March 1943. In the Beauvais logbook the code was PV+IB. "...destroyed during the bombing of ... , August 18; 1944." ... hmmm, regarding the logbook Beauvais he flew the a/c on September 23, 1944, in Memmingen.

W.Nr. blocks:
p.175: Bf 109B - not 301 - 475 but 284 - 418, 539 - 547, 588 - 618 (from a memo 26.08.1938 and approved by repair messages and other documents), delivery stop was in January 1938 - not December 1937 (the last Bf109B was delivered in April 1938)
p.175: Bf 109D - first a/c's were delivered in February 1938 not December 1937
p.175: Bf 109F-2 - delivery started in Dezember 1940 not in February 1941
P.176: W.Nr.17000 - 17057 not mentioned --- It were Erla - machines, W.Nr. 17001 - 17019, G-6, August 1943.
p.176: The W.Nr.26072 was an G-5 not a G-6 like W.Nr.27084 too.
p.176: He has not the slightest idea about the serial numbers 32000 - 37000 - keyword: internal Erla-Werknummer.
p.177: The first G-10 wasn't W.Nr.490 129 but 490 128.

and so on and so on ... I have neither time nor desire to pick out all the shortcomings here ...

Best regards
Rasmussen
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  #14  
Old 10th October 2019, 20:54
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Nokose Nokose is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Any word on went JFV 13/V will be coming out?
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  #15  
Old 12th October 2019, 13:06
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

I would like to order teil 13/IV and live in the Netherlands ,there is a additional fee for sending wich is normal for 7,50 euro .But when i fill in the order there is a DHL charge for 25,00 euro ,so a total amount of 32,50 Euro . That is of course ridiculous ! Is there somebody in Germany nearby the german-dutch border of Dorpen [Germany] ? .
Sorry but almost 30% for transport .Maybe some point of intrest for distribution.

Regards Harrie
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  #16  
Old 12th October 2019, 13:50
Maciej Góralczyk Maciej Góralczyk is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
I would like to order teil 13/IV and live in the Netherlands ,there is a additional fee for sending wich is normal for 7,50 euro .But when i fill in the order there is a DHL charge for 25,00 euro ,so a total amount of 32,50 Euro . That is of course ridiculous ! Is there somebody in Germany nearby the german-dutch border of Dorpen [Germany] ? .
Sorry but almost 30% for transport .Maybe some point of intrest for distribution.

Regards Harrie
Try with Sound BM:
https://www.sound-bm.com/de/die-jagd...-31121944.html
or Berliner Zinnfiguren:
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Buecher-Me...1-12-1944.html

The latter shop has a flat shipping rate of 11.99 E.
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  #17  
Old 12th October 2019, 14:09
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Hi Marcel,

Thanks for your alternative. This is a reasonable price .
So I will order by your link.
Much appreciated. Greetings from Netherlands
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  #18  
Old 12th October 2019, 14:11
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: 13/IV , Einsatz in der Reichsverteidigung und im Westen 1.1. bis 31.12.1944

Sorry oeps, misspeld your name Maciej
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