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Old 14th April 2019, 13:59
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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4(F)/11 January 1942

Is there any confirmation as to where 4(F)/11 were based in early January 1942 .Other sites show them at Witebsk (Viciebsk ?) until Dec. 1941 . then between March -April 1942 at Seschtschinskaja ( Seshcha ?) . I am mainly interested in the loss of Ju 88 1127 6M+DM crew of Ltn Karl-Heinz Kuntze missing Suchinitschi (Sukhinichi ?) S/W of Moscow on the 8th. A loss for this Staffel on 16th Jan shows Veminsk-Kaluga and one the next day has Kaluga- Moshaisk (Mozhaysk ?). I believe Kaluga was retaken by Russian forces on the 4th January. The names of the Kuntze crew were not on the Grabesuche site so assume they are still missing to an unknown cause ,

Any help Appreciated
Brian Bines
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Old 14th April 2019, 15:26
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is online now
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

4.(F)/11
My files show the following for that period:

1/42: reassigned directly to VIII. Fliegerkorps for recce operations along the defensive front between Smolensk and Moscow, this subordination continuing into April; the Staffel was based at Seshchinskaya/40 km SE of Roslavl.
8.1.42: (Ob.d.H.) - 2 Ju 88s (6M+DM, LM) both FTR from recce flights in the vicinity of Sukhinichi/NE of Roslavl, both crews MIA.
30.1.42: (VIII.FI.K.) - Ju 88 (6M+BM) FTR from recce flight from Seshchinskaya to Medyn, 100%, 4 MIA.

Sources:
W.Dierich - Die Verbände der Luftwaffe 1935-1945: Gliederungen und Kurzchroniken – Eine Dokumentation; J.-P.Défieux - Répertoire des Unités Aériennes de la Luftwaffe 1935-1945: Reconnaissance Aéronavale (Nanterre, privately published, n.d. (c 1988-90?); G.Tessin - Verbände und Truppen der Deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS 1939-1945. Teil 14: Die Luftstreitkräfte (Osnabrück, 1980); N.Kannapin - Die deutsche Feldpostübersicht 1939-1945. 3 Bde (I – III) (Osnabrück, 1980-82); U.Balke - Der Luftkrieg in Europa: Die Operativen Einsätze des Kampfgeschwader 2 im Zweiten Weltkrieg, Teil I, p.398; BA-MA Freiburg: Signatur RL 2 III Meldungen über Flugzeugunfälle…..(Loss Reports – LRs); Signatur RL 40/Kart; PRO London: AIR 40/1966; NARA WashDC: RG 242 (T-311 roll 228/491); (T-312 roll 188/768); (T-313 roll 111/201; rolls 154-56 daily reports); (T-321 roll 50/876; roll 114/016); NARA WashDC aerial photo data via M.Abicht; AFHRA Maxwell: decimal 512.625S (British Air Ministry) OKL document; documents from TSAMO Podolsk.

It was still at Vitebsk in 29.11.41. To find out exactly when it arrived at Seshchinskaya, you will need to find a Flugbuch or two or three because I've been through all the surviving documents. The Staffel is not mentioned for December 1941 and that leads me to believe it was resting and refitting somewhere, or at least on stand down, perhaps at Vitebsk, while most of the personnel were released for home leave.

L.

Last edited by Larry deZeng; 14th April 2019 at 15:36. Reason: addition
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Old 14th April 2019, 18:06
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

Hello Brian,

following I quote the Gen.Qu. loss returns of the above-mentioned losses:
10 Jan 1942 item 49
8.1. 4.(F)/11 Feindflug Auftrag (target) Suchinitschi, Ursache: unbekannt, Ju 88 1127 6M+DM 100%
F Lt Kuntze, Karl Heinz vermisst
B Lt Bolz, Albert vermisst
Bf Fw Radtke, Herbert vermisst
Bs Ogefr Becker, Rudolf vermisst

10 Jan 1942 item 50
8.1. 4.(F)/11 Feindflug Auftrag: Tim, Ursache: unbekannt, Ju 88 1523 6M+LM 100%
F Ofw Waldukat, Otto vermisst
B Lt Langelotz, Hans vermisst
Bf Gefr Odenwald, Rudolf vermisst
Bs Gefr Gardinger, Joachim vermisst

19 Jan 1942 item 20
16.1. 4./F)/11 Feindflug Auftrag: Veminsk-Kaluga, Ursache: unbekannt, Ju 88 D-1 1485 8H+GL (this code is doubtful!) 100%
F Lt Hilmer, Eberhard vermisst
B Lt Deierlzing, Wilhelm vermisst
Bf Uffz Hammel, Edgar vermisst
Bs Uffz Knecht, Karl vermisst

20 Jan 1942 item 9
17.1. 4.(F)/11 Feindflug Auftrag: Kaluga-Moshaisk, Ursache: unbekannt, Ju 88 1239 6M+HM 100%
F Ofw Köder, Karl vermisst
B Oblt Sutter, Anton vermisst
Bf Ogefr Sehmann, Erich vermisst
Bs Ogefr Reimer, Hugo vermisst

4 Feb 1942 item 21
30.1. 4.(F)/11 Feindflug Auftrag: Seschtschinskaja-Medyn, Ursache: unbekannt, Ju 88 1327 6M+BM 100%.
F Lt Schäfers, August vermisst
B Fw Hopp, Otto vermisst
Bf Uffz Hill, Georg vermisst
Bs Uffz Plaume, Horst vermisst.

Regards
Leo
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Old 14th April 2019, 18:37
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bines View Post
I am mainly interested in the loss of Ju 88 1127 6M+DM crew of Ltn Karl-Heinz Kuntze missing Suchinitschi (Sukhinichi ?) S/W of Moscow on the 8th.
Brian, I believe that the crew lost on 16 January was shot down and taken prisoner, I would like to follow this up with you over e-mail. I may be able to help with the 8 January loss, thought I do not have any information to add yet.

Larry and Leo, thank you for taking the trouble to make very informative contributions! These are the kind of posts that make this forum a pleasure to be a member, I hope this will continue long into the future.

Kind regards,

Dan
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Old 14th April 2019, 19:39
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

Larry, Leo and Dan - thank you all very much for the information that you have provided. The copy of the Furhrerschein I have for Kuntze is stamped Blindflugschule 5 with a 'bis' date of 26-10-1941 which would suggest at the time of his loss he my have been a recent posting to his staffel

All the Best
Brian Bines
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Old 15th April 2019, 03:00
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

Hi,

On 30 December 1941 4.(F)/11 had been ordered to move to Seschtschenskaja, and it was operating from there on 3 January 1942. On 10 January 1942 it had just three Ju 88s serviceable. On 19 January 1942 4.(F)/11 was at Seschtschenskaja under VIII. Fliegerkorps, and was subordinated to Nakafü Süd.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
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Old 15th April 2019, 18:50
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: 4(F)/11 January 1942

Andrew,

Thanks very much for this info.,

Regards
Brian Bines
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