Armée de L'Air - twin engined aircraft nº178

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by rof120

Both a 63.11 and a 631 having the same production number (178)? I doubt it and think there is an error somewhere (a typo or whatever).

No need to doubt that.

Each new sub-version of the Potez 63 family started all over again, from No 1
You have to remember that Potez was one of those companies in France using double identities. First they used a primary system which must have started way back with perhaps even the SEA models and by late 1930s they had reached appx 4900 or so. All models then combined this range with a secondary system starting as usual with 01 for prototypes and 1 with their production.

It would be interesting to see a c/n plate of Potez aircraft.

While it is true no single good book on the type exists (yet!) I hope LELA Presse one day will authorize such a book.

I also notice Adriano has found a site where you can see the production ranges for the type. Seems a good one!

I have no idea why so many French companies used this primary/secondary system from roughly 1919 or so. It has caused a lot of problems for historians through the years. Some companies (Caudron is a prime example) also changed their second number when/if the aircraft was modified to another sub-version while keeping the primary number intact, creating more or less a nightmare to follow, since in many cases only one of those ranges is known. Just awful if you ask me!

Adriano
Just one point with regard to the X-947 number you quote. That is no ex number, it is the so called Matricule Militaire (or Buzz number in English since that is what they were intended as) and was basically located in large letter/digits underneath the wings.

Cheers
Stig

[rof120]

Well, it seems that my knowledge of the Potez 63... AC was not quite comprehensive. Sorry. ( >)

In Danel and Cuny's superlative book "l'aviation de chasse française 1918-1940" (Docavia - Larivière) there is a very useful table on page 182. There we can find the whereabouts of all modern Armée de l'Air fighter aircraft as of May 10, 1940: in first-line units, undergoing repairs, destroyed or written off, used in test centres (32 AC) and fighter schools (241 in f. schools) etc.

The fighter types are: Morane 405-406 (405s, an experimental "présérie" of about a dozen, hardly played any part except perhaps in fighter schools and test centres), Curtiss H 75, Bloch 151, Bloch 152, Dewoitine 520, Caudron 714, even Koolhoven FK 58, Potez 630, Potez 631. 86 Potez 630s had been produced by May 10, and 208 Potez 631s. No obsolete types like D.500, 501, 510 or others are included.

A total of 2,219 fighters of these types had been delivered as of May 10 including 14 Koolhoven FK 58, but production of all types except MS 406 and CR 714 was raising by the day at last, which explains that the final production of D.520s was over 400 as compared to 57 on May 10. On this date 104 AC had been destroyed or written off and 114 had been exported to Turkey, Finland, Switzerland or transferred to the French naval aviation. The production of MS 406s was being phased out very fast; 7 were poduced in April, 10 in May and the last ones - only 4 - were produced in June.

All in all 2,511 modern single-engined fighters had been delivered to the AA from 1938 through June 1940 as well as 291 Potez 630-631 (of which 206 were 631s). This does not, it seems, include aircraft which were exported or transferred to the Aéronavale.

Lela Presse have been indeed planning a book on Potez 630-631s but when are we going to get it "in our greedy hands?". Only the gods know. Some 12 years ago (2008) they did publish a volume on all Potez aircraft but without a list of all production numbers like 178. In this book it was mentioned (at the top of the Pz 63-chapter) that work had been in progress for a few years on a comprehensive Potez 63-book, "certainly in two volumes". Sigh.