Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th December 2012, 17:34
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
30 June 1940

Hi guys

2 Group Blenheims carried out morning and afternoon raids on 30 June, each escorted by Hurricanes. Both raids were intercepted and a number of aircraft were claimed and lost. Can anyone clarify, please?

I have:

Morning: Blenheims escorted by Hurricanes of 111 and 615 Squadrons engaged by I/JG20; three Blenheims lost and three Bf109s claimed probably destroyed.

Afternoon: Blenheims escorted by Hurricanes of 56 and 151 Squadrons engaged by III/JG3 and I/LG2. Hurricanes claimed 5 Bf109s and 2 probables for one Hurricane (pilot rescued). At least 4 Hurricanes and 2 Blenheims claimed.

Any help appreciated please.

Cheers & Happy New Year
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th December 2012, 05:27
wellss wellss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 36
wellss is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Bomber command diaries states 18 Blenheims, 12 to Merville airfield and 6 to Vignacourt aircraft depot. 3 aircraft lost.

That's all for June 30

Details for the 3 Blenheims, from 107 squadron, found here,

http://www.epibreren.com/ww2/raf/107_squadron.html#3006
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th December 2012, 11:54
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,603
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

I was in touch with David Hawkins some years ago. His account says that there were just 3 Blenheims of 107 Sqn & their target was an airfield near St Omer but they never reached the target. They were intercepted at low level just short of the target by 4 Bf 109s. They were meant to have an escort but never saw them. Their loss matches well with Ihlefeld 's claims

Last edited by Chris Goss; 30th December 2012 at 12:46. Reason: More
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 31st December 2012, 12:42
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Hi guys

Thanks for the input. However, I am endeavouring to sort out the German claims and losses, which don't seem to fit in according to times etc. Any ideas?

Chris, re the losses of the 107 Squadron Blenheims, you are aware that a Do17 gunner claimed two shot down off Guernsey!

Cheers & Happy New Year
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31st December 2012, 13:22
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,603
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Guernsey is a long way from Pas de Calais combat wise & is probably the combat between B & T/ 235 Sqn & a Do 17 in grid KLWS 2728. Jochen Prien's books are the best source for claims & losses-it would appear that 107 put up a good fight as Ihlefeld & Clausen were badly damaged & Rauhut Killed. However, then you have Kolbow & Schnell's claims for 2 Blenheims at 1250 hrs. The puzzle is I have different times for Ihelfeld' kills namely 1245 & 1530 & then Clausen' kill at 1530. Jochen says 1525 & 1530 (2nd kill a Spitfire) & Clausen unknown. I have no other Bomber or Coastal Command Blenheim losses for 30 June 40. Good luck sorting this one out!

Last edited by Chris Goss; 31st December 2012 at 13:58.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 31st December 2012, 14:13
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Hi Chris


You will be aware that Tony Wood's has listed:



30.06.40 Ofw. Erwin Clausen 3./JG 77 Blenheim
- 12.43
30.06.40 Ltn. Hans Kolbow 3./JG 20 Blenheim - 12.50
30.06.40 Ltn. Karl-Heinz Schnell 3./JG 20 Blenheim - 12.50



30.06.40 Ltn. Herbert Ihlefeld Stab I./LG 2 Blenheim - 15.25


30.06.40 Ltn. Herbert Ihlefeld Stab I./LG 2 Spitfire - 15.30
30.06.40 Uffz. Otto Weßling 9./JG 3 Spitfire - 15.45

30.06.40 Uffz. Theodor Kröll 3./JG 20 Spitfire
- 15.45


30.06.40 Ltn. Hans Kolbow 3./JG 20 Spitfire - 15.45




The three 107 Blenheims were lost during the first raid, since 110 was involved in the second raid, and only one Hurricane was lost (151 Sqn).



Re the Do17/Blenheim combat - I wasn't aware that 235 was involved. Any damage?



PS: I've just had a peek at Andy Bird's book - confusing anomoly: you state that 2/235 (B=Flood & T=Carr) combated a Do17 and claimed it damaged on 30 June, BUT in the narative Andy implies this combat occurred on 1 July!


Cheers & all the best for the New Year

Brian





Last edited by Brian; 31st December 2012 at 14:56.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 31st December 2012, 15:36
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,603
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Brian
Confusing I agree but the account I have just mentions 4 Bf 109s & that one Blenheim went down in flames before Hawkins crash landed. As to the 235 incident I have this from the Coastal Command Intsum & Andy has my 235 Sqn records! According to the Intsum, no damage to the Blenheims but they damaged the Do 17
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31st December 2012, 17:47
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: 30 June 1940

Hi Chris - yes needs further investigation. Where's Peter Cornwell when you need him?! And Jochen Prien?

During the afternoon raid, only one Hurricane was lost, yet 4 'Spitfires' + 3 probables + one Blenheim were claimed by:

Gfr Otto Wessling of 9./JG3 Spitfire
Ltn Herbert Ihlefeld Stab I./LG2 Spitfire and a Blenheim
Uffz Theodor Kröll 3./JG20 Spitfire
Ltn Hans Kolbow 3./JG20 Spitfire
while three pilots of 7./JG3 each claimed a Hurricane/Spitfire but neither Obfw Hans Heitmann, Uffz Eberhard von Boremski nor Gfr Karl Pfeiffer was officially allowed their victories.


You state that the aircraft flown by Ihlefeld and Clausen were badly damaged & Rauhut was shot down and killed. Morning or afternoon? Do we have times? Oblt Heinz Kupka of 9./JG3 was also killed.


I hope the New Year will bring some answers!

Cheers
Brian






Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly fire WWII Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 786 6th October 2018 13:04
RAF and RAAF ORBs available on the Web (new version) Laurent Rizzotti Allied and Soviet Air Forces 63 30th September 2018 23:55
British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940. Martin Gleeson Allied and Soviet Air Forces 22 18th October 2016 00:40
Two Blenheims lost 30 June 1940 Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 1st November 2009 13:27
Fighter pilots' guts Hawk-Eye Allied and Soviet Air Forces 44 8th April 2005 15:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net