Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21st October 2018, 13:03
Rémi Baudru Rémi Baudru is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 134
Rémi Baudru is on a distinguished road
Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Bonjour,

I have recently purchased the new Eduard model of the "Sturmbock". One of the seven options of decoration is for the Fw 190 A-8 W.Nr 682204 (red 1) of Lt Bretschneider of 5/JG 300 in late 1944. Pictures of this plane can be found page 70/71 of the Vol 2 of the books written by Jean-Yves Lorant = Bataille dans le ciel d'Allemagne (JG 300 story) or page 363 of "Focke Wulf Jagdflugzeug..." written by Peter Rodeike).

In the notice of the Eduard model it is written : "according to new sources, the inscription bellow the cockpit (Rauhbautz VII) was yellow with red shadowing... and the spinner carries a white spiral on a red background".
Does any follower of this forum could tell me what are these "new sources" ?

Could anyone explain how could "Rauhbautz" be translated ?

Thanks in advance.
Best regards.
RB
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21st October 2018, 20:17
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 539
Horst Weber
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rémi Baudru View Post
Bonjour,

I have recently purchased the new Eduard model of the "Sturmbock". One of the seven options of decoration is for the Fw 190 A-8 W.Nr 682204 (red 1) of Lt Bretschneider of 5/JG 300 in late 1944. Pictures of this plane can be found page 70/71 of the Vol 2 of the books written by Jean-Yves Lorant = Bataille dans le ciel d'Allemagne (JG 300 story) or page 363 of "Focke Wulf Jagdflugzeug..." written by Peter Rodeike).

In the notice of the Eduard model it is written : "according to new sources, the inscription bellow the cockpit (Rauhbautz VII) was yellow with red shadowing... and the spinner carries a white spiral on a red background".
Does any follower of this forum could tell me what are these "new sources" ?

Could anyone explain how could "Rauhbautz" be translated ?

Thanks in advance.
Best regards.
RB
Rémi !

"Rauhbautz" is the name of a horse in German military service (Armeepferd), whose adventures were created in two novels by a German writer Lehmann in the beginning of the 1940ties. It's very hard to translate it,. Rauh means raw or rough. Bautz seems to be a local dialect term or an apprevation for the city of Bautzen. Since Bretschneider was a Berlin origin and Bautzen is not so far away, maybe a stud farm existed near Bautzen, which produced "Rauhbautz'es"

Only a guess.


Best wishes !


Horst Weber
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd October 2018, 17:28
Maciej Góralczyk Maciej Góralczyk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Poland
Posts: 149
Maciej Góralczyk is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Ask this user: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/member.php?u=92
who was mentioned by Eduard as a consultant for this project.
Otherwise, looking at the photos, I agree with the representation of the inscription in the described way.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd October 2018, 21:47
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,769
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horst Weber View Post
Rémi !

"Rauhbautz" is the name of a horse in German military service (Armeepferd), whose adventures were created in two novels by a German writer Lehmann in the beginning of the 1940ties. It's very hard to translate it,. Rauh means raw or rough. Bautz seems to be a local dialect term or an apprevation for the city of Bautzen. Since Bretschneider was a Berlin origin and Bautzen is not so far away, maybe a stud farm existed near Bautzen, which produced "Rauhbautz'es"

Only a guess.


Best wishes !


Horst Weber
Horst

Being non-German speaking I can only rely on what my memory says here.
Someone has stated that Rauhbautz ment "tough guy" (don't mess around with me or I will kick your xxx type of individual)
Correct? Don't know, but looking at photos of Bretschneider.....perhaps not impossible....

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23rd October 2018, 00:29
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 715
Nick Hector is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Horst

Being non-German speaking I can only rely on what my memory says here.
Someone has stated that Rauhbautz ment "tough guy" (don't mess around with me or I will kick your xxx type of individual)
Correct? Don't know, but looking at photos of Bretschneider.....perhaps not impossible....

Cheers
Stig

Stig,

Yes. That is the translation that Barbas offered in the Kookaburra Technical Publications editions all those years ago
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23rd October 2018, 01:56
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,769
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hector View Post
Stig,

Yes. That is the translation that Barbas offered in the Kookaburra Technical Publications editions all those years ago
Ahh

Memory not totally gone then....
But is it correct?

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23rd October 2018, 09:12
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 455
Kari Lumppio
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Hallo!

Rauhbautz has been a novel character (war horse), too. See:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur-Heinz_Lehmann

I don't know anything about the books or their substance, just googled. The two books were forbidden in DDR, it seems. Perhaps that points to some direction?

Cheers,
Kari
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th October 2018, 20:53
Rémi Baudru Rémi Baudru is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 134
Rémi Baudru is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / thanks for your answers

Bonjour,

Thanks for your answers.

Best regards.

RB
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26th October 2018, 14:52
Jean-Yves Lorant Jean-Yves Lorant is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: France
Posts: 71
Jean-Yves Lorant is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Gentlemen


The inscription Rauhbautz VII on the Sturmbock of Lt Klaus Bretschneider was red, a lighter red than the RV-band (which was wine red) with dark shadows. I have discussed this point many times in the 1980s with Hans Ossowski, Ernst Schröder, Matthäus Erhardt, Naggi Graziadei and Lorenz Foag, all of 5.(Sturm)/JG 300 of Leutnant Bretschneider. All were of the same opinion.
I am sorry to destroy the certainties of the "Eduard's specialist". History is transmitted as much as primary sources permit, and it is better not to turn assumptions into truths. Anyway you are free to paint your models as you want, they will not change the historical reality.
The meaning of Rauhbautz given by his Staffel-Kameraden is the same as that of Bernd Barbas: a rough guy that you must avoid upsetting.


Regards

Jean-Yves Lorant
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ogfr Schmid und Lt Klaus Bretschneider Löbnitz 1944.jpg (195.6 KB, 54 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26th October 2018, 15:02
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,769
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Fw 190 A-8/R2 Lt Bretschneider / two questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Yves Lorant View Post

The meaning of Rauhbautz given by his Staffel-Kameraden is the same as that of Bernd Barbas: a rough guy that you must avoid upsetting.

Regards

Jean-Yves Lorant
Thanks Jean-Yves

That settles it

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
27/08/43:JG2,JG26 losses and allied claims focusfocus Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 19 6th August 2018 21:15
2./NAGr. 13 Xerumbe Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 8 2nd March 2018 22:39
EJG 1 1945: Which Staffel flew Fw 190, which Bf 109? Roger Gaemperle Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 37 21st August 2016 01:44
Which 5 b-17s of 323 BS take off on 4 feb 1943. Hamm Raid. mystex Allied and Soviet Air Forces 14 12th December 2011 00:03
129 Squadron (Mysore), 11th September 1943 Jan.Safarik Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 14th March 2010 15:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net