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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #61  
Old 19th January 2007, 12:00
NBE1942 NBE1942 is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Yes it is the key word, I think the day of begining of "Fall Blau" was the begining of operation for "capturing" Stalingrad (28 VI 1942). The first phase to capture Voronez, nextr to Don river (Don's bend) and later towards Stalingard. For me this is the period of begining the battle + phases. So it was the first pahse battle for Stalingard of capturing in Novyj Oskol railway stattion a few Hurricanes (2 at least) by German + Hungarian troops + 1 LaGG-3 more. Planes were damaged after belly landing.

I see. The battle of Moscow started on June 22, 1941, am I right???

С 10.09.1942 г. входила в состав 1-го иак."
This info comming from Vasiliy Kharin's site.


Indeed. Check in other sources where this IAK was positioned and what planes equipped with at this period.
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  #62  
Old 19th January 2007, 12:06
NBE1942 NBE1942 is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád View Post
Mapquest found four Kudinov in Russia, all of them located south-west of Stalingrad:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...=&city=kudinov
There are three variants: one it was Hurricane from Rostov PVO. The possibility is very dismal. Other variants that this is misidentification or overclaim
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  #63  
Old 19th January 2007, 14:49
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

I see. The battle of Moscow started on June 22, 1941, am I right???


Yes you are "right" - good strategy thinking, :-)

"The Great Pariotic War" for many, many years had began, in many official and Soviet time publications of Soviet's counter-attack from Moscow - 5 XII 1941. Next steps was Stalingarad, the last one Berlin.

There were not so many information about earlier period and terrible own losses ect. So I think, that some Russian still belive in this version of WW II on Eastern Front.
I hope you do not belive, that Battle of Moscow had began on 5 XII 1941, :-)

Regards,
mw

PS
In fact one of main strategy/target for Hitler in 1941 was Moscow, next was Leningrad. So you are right, when you say, that great battle for (not of) Moscow + Leningrad had began on 22 VI 1941.
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  #64  
Old 19th January 2007, 15:35
NBE1942 NBE1942 is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski View Post



"The Great Pariotic War" for many, many years had began, in many official and Soviet time publications of Soviet's counter-attack from Moscow - 5 XII 1941. Next steps was Stalingarad, the last one Berlin.

There were not so many information about earlier period and terrible own losses ect. So I think, that some Russian still belive in this version of WW II on Eastern Front.
.
Interesting how you always try to accuse Russians of ignorance. I suppose here the perennial loathe towards Russians that some Polish people have in their minds and nothing else.
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  #65  
Old 19th January 2007, 15:37
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

OK, guys, let's keep it focused on information and not personal attacks.
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  #66  
Old 19th January 2007, 20:36
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Interesting how you always try to accuse Russians of ignorance. I suppose here the perennial loathe towards Russians that some Polish people have in their minds and nothing else.

NBE1942, I do not know how old are you but your last claims is quite strange (?!). There was in offical Polish WW II history (state's level, period 1948-1990) such a "code/mode" of presenting the facts about GWP and - "nothing" between. Probably you are to young (you as a boy or girl) to undrestand, what was the censorship and how big influence had Soviet Union on on other states before 1989/90. For small example: there was several books in Poland about WW II history, which were destroyed after political intervention of Soviet ambassy in 70-ties. The books such terrible special, was even written by our party members (PZPR).

It was general policy of censorship for many not good (true, obiective information) about Soviet-Russian in WW II history and not only. It was such doctrine in whole ex-Soviet block. This policy was also in Soviet Union (compare the books from Chruszczev era and Brezniev one, or later).
So your last claims shows, that you are very young and do not undrestand this part of very modern history (1945-89). It is your problem and lack of knowledge about delibertate creation of history WW II.

Regards,
mw
PS
So it was not any kind of ignorance, but deliberate long-term policy of censorship, introduced in whole ex-Soviet block like Poland from 40-ties.
Probably (you are to young) and belive, that in Soviet Union or other ex-Soviet block were a freedom of speech or not censored books, not censored magazines, TV ect. Mihail Gorbachow (probably his name is unknown for you too) had introduced the glasnost policy (in 80-ies), which was first step of breaking the policy of total censorship in ex-Soviet block, including in Poland.
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  #67  
Old 19th January 2007, 22:37
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

A friendly, but final, warning from the forum moderator.

I won't stop this thread, but I will end any further dilution of the original topic.



Please return to the original and certainly interesting discussion.
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  #68  
Old 19th January 2007, 22:37
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBE1942 View Post
There are three variants: one it was Hurricane from Rostov PVO. The possibility is very dismal. Other variants that this is misidentification or overclaim
I found an additional info on the incident. The pair of Rumaian Bf 109Es flew in the Bataisk-Manitschkaja area. Is this of help to identify where is Kudinov?

Both victories were confirmed by Rumanian air force (ARR) HQ. This, of course, doesn't mean that it could not have been aircraft type misidentification, or overclaim.
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