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Old 22nd December 2017, 16:03
Graham Holmes Graham Holmes is offline
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Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

We are researching this incident. Aircraft was shot down by Mosquito of 488 Sq and crashed at Iden, Rye, East Sussex at 02.40hrs. Pilot, Lt.Baack killed attempting forced landing. Gunner, M.Strasser, baled out and suffered a broken leg. Any further information in respect of this aircraft and its mission would be useful especially the fate of the gunner.

Graham Holmes
Lashenden Air Warfare Museum
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Old 22nd December 2017, 16:23
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Was in touch with the 488 Sqn pilot and am still in touch with the Nav/Rad. Target was London and it was one of 6 Me 410s which attacked at 0230-0236 hrs German time with 12 SC 500 bombs and was reported as seen being shot down by other crews in PlQ 05E/22344 at 0243 hrs. No contact has ever been made with Strasser as far as I am aware and there are no known photos of the crash/German crew

Last edited by Chris Goss; 22nd December 2017 at 18:10.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 17:13
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Hello Graham,

Gen.Qu. loss report from 23 December 1943 with corrections from 13 and 31 January 1944:
20.12. 14./KG 2 Feindflug Ort: Unbekannt, Ursache: Unbekannt
Me 410 A-1 420085 U5+HE 100%
F Lt Günter Baack gefallen
Bf Uffz Michael Strasser vermisst.

Ulf Balke "Der Luftkrieg in Europa" Vol. 2 page 472:
19./20.12.1943 14./KG 2 Zielort: London, Verlustort: Boonshill Farm Iden Rye, Ursache: Mosquito 488 Sqd. P/O Robinson.
Me 410 A-1 420085 U5+HE 100%
F Lt Heinz-Günther Baack +
Bf Uffz Michael Strasser POW. FS-Absprung 02.35 Uhr .

Regards
Leo
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:26
Graham Holmes Graham Holmes is offline
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Hi Chris & Leo,

Thank you both very much for the information.

The project was initiated after I was given a copy of Robinson's combat report. It's very detailed but says little about the 410, its occupants and their mission. I am hoping to meet with a member of the Mosquito crew (not sure which one) through a third party who provided the combat report.

Michael Strasser broke his leg after baling out and was taken to the British General Hospital at Benenden, Kent for treatment. The hospital was only temporary and was situated at what is now Benenden School. My guess is that subsequently Strasser would have been interrogated at Cockfosters and then moved either to the U.S. or Canada. He may even have spent some time at a camp in the UK, doing farm labouring.

Graham Holmes
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Old 23rd December 2017, 13:28
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Robinson if still alive was suffering from dementia at least 15 years ago. Terry Clark his Nav Rad is approaching 100 & as one of the very few surviving Battle of Britain aircrew is constantly put upon. I doubt he could add anything more. I do have photos of both aircrew
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Old 24th December 2017, 15:50
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

There is a photo of Lt.Baak of 14/KG2 in front of his Me 410 on page 287 of the
Messerschmidt Bf 110 Me210 Me 410 book by Heinz Mankau/Peter Petrick . The photo is credited to Baak, plus another researcher obtained a head and shoulders photo of Baak (Baack) a few years ago I believe through his family . Baack had claimed a twin engined aircraft south of Lincoln on 3/4-09/43 . The ADI(K) report says the badly injured Strasser was located 20m miles away from the crash site
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Old 24th December 2017, 18:03
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Holmes View Post
My guess is that subsequently Strasser would have been interrogated at Cockfosters and then moved either to the U.S. or Canada. He may even have spent some time at a camp in the UK, doing farm labouring.

Graham Holmes
Standard route for German pows was Cockfosters - pow camp in the UK - shipped to Canada.

Once the war was over, they were technically no longer pows. From those I interviewed many years (read decades!) ago, they were given two options: 1) stay put in camp and do nothing until repatriated; or 2) get out and do work under the guidance of the military authorities.

So, Otto Hintze (Staka, 3./Erpr. Gr. 210, pow 29/10/40) told me he did work as a lumberjack for a year or so in Canada, and loved it, prior to returning to the UK, and on back to Germany.
Georg Jakstadt (9./ZG 26, pow 27/9/40), upon being returned to England went out 5 days a week with others and worked on a farm in Cambridgeshire, prior to repatriation.
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Old 24th December 2017, 18:45
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

At what time exactly they returned home ??

Always amazed to see that by the americans or frenchs some returned only in 1946, when they returned ..

Rémi
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Old 25th December 2017, 14:55
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Technically German POWs remained POWs after May 1945 because the war did not end at this date, only fighting did. At this date the German forces surrendered but the end of state of war was in 1950-1951 for Western Powers and in 1955 for USSR.

This brings me some questions about the status of Italian POWs after October 1943, where Italy was a cobelligerent of the Allies while the peace treaty between Italy and the Allies was only signed in 1947.
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Old 25th December 2017, 15:48
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Re: Me410 14/KG2 20th December 1943

Things are a bit more rought, allies decided in 1945 to not observe Geneva Convention, signed by Germany nd most of allies, except Russia,the scope of the convention was to make the war more "human", so literally not behave like animals , Convention for example, theoricaly consider as free, the prisoners, as soon as the armistice is signed, so the 9.Mai 45, nd prohibite slave or/nd dangerous work like demining.., to explain their enfringment to this Convention , the allies put forward the unconditionnal surrender, no legal gouvernment, to much people to manage....
Considering question of the casualties resulting of the inobservance of the Convention, it's highly controversial , low figures, only considering West some dozens of thousands to hundred of thousands, including East we reach the millions, nd it's necessary, or not, to add the civilians

Rémi
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