Messerschmitt Bf 109E Spinners

[Dave Bobbiggles]

Hi

Trying to identify a Messerschmitt Bf 109E Spinner. It is light green with a yellow fitted nose cone. Can anyone identify which variant of Messerschmitt Bf 109E it would come from with a nose cap fitted? Does this mean that it would be an E-4/N or E-7/N? Also does anyone have any idea if the colours could identify what unit or Staffel it may originate from? Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

[obdl3945]

Hi, Dave...

I'm no expert, especially on fighters, but I think it would be difficult to identify a particular variant of Bf109E purely from the propellor spinner. I think the E-4 was the first to employ a 'capped' spinner, but if you had the Werk Nummer of the machine in question, then it may be possible to track the particular sub-type from that. E-7s also used the 'capped' spinner.

As for colours, generally, the spinners of German aircraft propellors were used to confirm the fusleage codes. On larger machines, it was often used to confirm the Staffel status of the machine. For example, 1H+AL - 3.Staffel KG26 - in theory, the aircraft letter 'A' would be yellow, and this would often have been confirmed by the spinner, all or in part, being painted yellow too. However, in some units the spinner colour represented the Gruppe. So, again taking the above code as an example, although the aircraft letter on the fuselage would be yellow, the spinner would perhaps be painted white to reflect the I.Gruppe identity of the machine (remembering that 3.Staffel fell within I.Gruppe). Gruppenstab and Geschwaderstab machines would have had bright green and medium blue spinners respectively, although later in the war, medium blue was passed to the fourth Staffel (where a unit was expanded to have four Staffeln per Gruppe) and the Geschwaderstab colour therefore became the same as the Gruppenstab colour, bright green.

So, it would again be difficult to determine what the spinner you are referring to would represent, without first knowing what all or part of the fuselage codes may have been.

As ever, please remember that oftentimes the Luftwaffe was a mass of contradiction, and that situations such as cannablising parts from one machine for use on another, may throw up many obstacles to correctly interpreting what is on view.

Regards...

[Dave Bobbiggles]

Thank you very much for that. All that is known about the spinner is it was purportedly shot down by P/O Mackenzie of No 501 Squadron during the Battle of Britain. Sadly 'Mac' could not remember any other details when he presented the spinner to the Kent Battle of Britain Museum in 1984, and with failing health we have not troubled him recently to try and jog his memory once more.

Sadly, as we had expected from our own research, this item is unlikely to ever shed the truth as to it's origin.

Kind regards

Dave

[Revi16]

Lets back track a little bit. We may still be able to narrow this down. We are talking about K.W. Mackenzie, correct?
How many kills did Mackenzie have? What are the dates?

Regards,
Mike

[Franek Grabowski]

Perhaps this was liberated from an unrelated wreck, like Lacey's rudder?

[Martti Kujansuu]

Ersatzteilliste (Truppenersatzteilliste) Für VDM-Verstelluftschraube. Ausgabe Oktober 1941 suggest that all Bf-109Es had the same type of spinner.

Bf 109 E, He 111 H3-H5, He 111 P.



Bf 109 B-D, Bf 110 A-B, Do 17 E-F, Do 18, Do 24, Do 215, He 111 A-B-E-H1-H2.



Martti

[obdl3945]

Hi, Martti...

Very interesting. I have to say though, that clearly from many photos available, Bf109E-1s and E-3s had open, ducted spinners. Perhaps they were all supposed to be the same, but I wouldn't say it was the case in practice. Perhaps they were the same, but could be 'capped' if necessary, but that raises the question as to why there were two different types of spinner in the first place. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on this subject than myself could explain...?