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  #1  
Old 19th July 2013, 11:48
nikkel nikkel is offline
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information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Hi to all,

Can anyone supply us with further information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH) crew ( 3 prison 1 Death) who failed to return from a reconnaissance sortie on the 12.05.1940?

Any help always greatly appreciated!

Regards Mike
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Old 19th July 2013, 13:53
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

1940-05-12, 1.(F)/121, Ju 88A-1, (88)0213, 7A+CH, Retranchement, südwestlich Vlaanderen
Absturz um 02.15 Uhr infolge Beschuß von Hurricane. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Denner, Kurt, gefangen
Beobachter Lt Bruns, Eckard, gefangen
Bordfunker Uffz Steinbock, August, gefangen
Bordschütze Gefr Damazyn, Gerhard, gefangen
denner am 1940-06-06 seinen Verletzungen erlegen.

Matti
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:51
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Mike/Matti

Peter Cornwell in BoF then and now put the time as 9.30H a.m., while we here have 02.15H which basically put the action right in the middle of the night, unless Matti is talking 02.15H p.m.
Since the recce flight is unlikely to have been made at night I still find the time difference stated in this case to be too big.

Anyone in for an explanation?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:31
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Sorry Stig, I have no explanation. Should check again the NVM, but I am now in Finland and cannot do it. Hopefully some one has better information. Matti
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:50
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

No worries Matti

You cannot do everything on your own!!

Cheers
Stig
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:33
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Hi, I think the timing as given by Peter is correct, however, not his interpretation of who shot down the Do17.
This is my modified version of Peters TBoFTaN entry:

1.(F)/121 Junkers Ju88A-1 (213). Both engines destroyed in attack by P/O Carey of No. 3 squadron over Tielt, west of Gent during reconnaissance of Belgian airfields. Crash-landed at ‘Retranchement’, in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen, 9.30 a.m. FF Fw Kurt Denner died of wounds. BO Lt Bruno Bruns captured badly wounded. BS Gefr Gerhard Damazyn captured slightly wounded. BF Uffz August Steinbock captured unhurt. Aircraft 7A+CH a 100% write-off.

Regards, Pieter
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Old 20th July 2013, 14:54
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Thanks Pieter

Just out of curiosity what evidence makes you change the shooter?

B Rgds
Stig
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Old 22nd July 2013, 22:50
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

Hi Stig,

At 9.30 a.m. (assuming that timing of the Ju88 crash is correct) there were two actions/fight going on. In the east of Belgium No. 85 and 87 Squadrons were attacking Ju87's and KG54 He111's over Maastricht-Liege, while trying to escort Blenheim bombers. They were in turn attacked by Stab/JG27. No mention of encountering a Ju88 way farther to the west.

The description of the No. 3 Sqn pilots Stephens and Carey fits much better. They were attacking Ju87's over the Bruxelles-Leuven area when all of a sudden a lone aircraft appeared from the clouds that they shot down and (Stephens) saw it make a crash landing. Retranchement is just west of Antwerpen on the Belgian-Dutch border, so this fits nicely.

The crew of the Ju88 told they were attacked while over Bruxelles by a single "Spitfire".

All in all this made me conclude the No.3 Sqn claim makes much more sense. Re-reading it all I'm now of the opinion, however, that the claim of P/O Stephens is more consistent. In combination with the Ju88 crew's declaration I thus opt for him as the one that can claim this aircraft.

Kind regards, Pieter
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Old 23rd July 2013, 14:21
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

OK thanks Pieter

Other authors link Stephens and Carey to the Do 17Z from 8./KG 77.

Me? I don't know...

B Rgds
Stig
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  #10  
Old 26th July 2013, 00:05
Pieter H Pieter H is offline
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Re: information regarding the loss of JU88(7A+CH)

I know, but there are many inaccurate or opportunistic claims all over the literature. The 8./KG77 a/c you mention is much more likely shot down by P/O Parker of No. 79 Sqn (after the a/c was first damaged by Moranes of GC II/6). Peter Cornwells description in TBoFTAN is in my view the best approximation to the truth. (Peter and I discussed this one in detail).

Regards, Pieter
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