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  #11  
Old 11th October 2023, 22:34
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GoranA GoranA is offline
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Hi Michael



According to some claims, circumstances were suspicious at least - his car was not moving when they were rammed by a truck, truck driver got away and was never found. After the accident ambulance hadn't arrived, so he and his wife were transported to the hospital by the family. Apparently, there was also some kind of confusion in the hospital, so he was left unattended until it was too late -I tried to find link (it was on some aviation forum) but I haven't found it yet (I read it like 10 years ago)



Score of 11 (or 12) was attributed to Zandi by Iranian AF command, he never claimed more than 9, (at least six of them were verified through Iraqi losses)


Regards, Goran

Last edited by GoranA; 12th October 2023 at 21:29.
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  #12  
Old 12th October 2023, 10:13
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Hello Goran,

yes, this sounds suspicious.

Did the Iranian AF command ever issue a list of those whom they deemed aces ?

I just have started reading the Cooper/Bishop book.

Best greetings from Switzerland,
Michael
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  #13  
Old 12th October 2023, 22:02
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

As far as I know there was no official list. There were some semi-official lists, published years after the war in different books and magazines, but the claims are not supported and differ wildly for certain pilots (F-4 pilot Aliyah Hoda was credited with 6, 9 or zero kills). Most often listed pilots, with up to 12 kills, were Zandi, Harandi and Rostami.


But it is quite possible that the "highest scoring ace" of IIRAF was not even a pilot - Brigadier Abbas Babaei, often flew as a "second seater" on F-14s, F-4s and F-5 two-seaters, with pilots, who were considered suspicious and disloyal to the islamist regime. Some accounts credit him with taking part in over 20 shot-downs.

Last edited by GoranA; 15th October 2023 at 23:33.
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  #14  
Old 20th October 2023, 11:09
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Good morning Goran,

I finished reading OSPREY's "Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat" which I liked quite much. The authors deal with this rather complicated topic in a very balanced and vivid manner. It seems as if the islamic regime undercredited the air kills of their pilots for some crooked political reasons.

On p79 Jalil Zandi is indicated as having scored 9 confirmed+3 probable kills (and having died from a heart failure). However, the kill list on p85-88 indicates 11 as does Wikipedia:
  1. 15May81 MiG-21
  2. ?Jan82 MiG-21
  3. 10 Oct82 MiG-23
  4. 10 Oct82 MiG-23
  5. ?Sep83 Su-22
  6. ?Sep83 Su-22
  7. ?Apr86 MiG-23
  8. ?Apr86 MiG-23
  9. 29Aug87 Mirage
  10. ?Feb88 Mirage
  11. ?Feb88 Mirage
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  #15  
Old 21st October 2023, 22:39
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GoranA GoranA is offline
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good morning Goran,

I finished reading OSPREY's "Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat" which I liked quite much. The authors deal with this rather complicated topic in a very balanced and vivid manner. It seems as if the islamic regime undercredited the air kills of their pilots for some crooked political reasons.

On p79 Jalil Zandi is indicated as having scored 9 confirmed+3 probable kills (and having died from a heart failure). However, the kill list on p85-88 indicates 11 as does Wikipedia:
  1. 15May81 MiG-21
  2. ?Jan82 MiG-21
  3. 10 Oct82 MiG-23
  4. 10 Oct82 MiG-23
  5. ?Sep83 Su-22
  6. ?Sep83 Su-22
  7. ?Apr86 MiG-23
  8. ?Apr86 MiG-23
  9. 29Aug87 Mirage
  10. ?Feb88 Mirage
  11. ?Feb88 Mirage

I can comment only the Mirage losses - number of delivered aircraft is known and also most of the losses.


29/8/1987 might be a valid claim, IrAF Capt. Abdul Karim Muhammad Ahmed was killed on that day over Farsi island (attributed to SAM though)

But there is only one known Mirage loss in February 1988 -it was shot down on 7.2. by F-14 piloted by Capt. Khalili




Soviet aircraft are more difficult to asses, because there are no reliable delivery numbers and the Iraqi,s downplayed their losses.


For example Razoux estimates 82 Iraqi Mig-23 losses, while on the other hand Iraqis admit "only" 45 losses - 38 FB versions and 5 interceptors, although it is known that the latter were much more involved in combat and there were quite high losses among their pilots.



I hope that more would be known in this regard when 3rd part of Miloš Šipoš' "Wings of Iraq" will be published
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  #16  
Old 28th October 2023, 10:42
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Hello Goran,

what's your opinion about Fazlollah Javidnia and Fereidoun Ali-Mazandarani ?

Have a good weekend,

Michael

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fazlollah_Javidnia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereidoun_Ali-Mazandarani
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  #17  
Old 30th October 2023, 00:34
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GoranA GoranA is offline
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Hello michael


Both of these claims are from Razoux Iran-Iraq War. In the appendices at the and of the book there is a list of IRIAF pilots with 3 or more victories - names with 5 or more are below :


Javidnya 12
Zandi 11
Al-Mazandarani 9
Mehreganfar 6
Harandi 6
(+ Rostami, Khalili, Afshar, Moslemi, Sedghi and Toufanian with 5 victories)


Razoux book was published more than 10 years after the Cooper/Bishop F-14 book so I suppose that the information included were based on more research. Still, without any detailed information from both sides it is difficult to confirm (or deny) any of those numbers.
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  #18  
Old 1st November 2023, 10:52
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Re: Iran-Iraq War fighter pilots

Good morning Goran,

I think the notion that Zandi is the Iranian top ace with 11 kills is largely based on "Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat" by Cooper/Bishop (2004) but this book also lists more kills with unknown scorers than kills with known scorers. Razoux in "The Iran-Iraq War" (2015) confirmed Zandi's score and adds 12 for Javidnia and 9 for Ali-Mazandarani but confusingly four years later in "Le sičcle des As (1915-1988): Une autre histoire de l'aviation" he reduces Zandi's score to 4+5probables and Javidnia's to 11+2probables while giving Ali-Mazandarani 11. I wonder what his sources were and why he changed his mind.

Have a good start into November,
Michael
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