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  #1  
Old 11th May 2024, 23:56
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Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

Please forgive me for this, but would someone please guide me to an online resource that tallies Luftwaffe claims/losses for Poland and the Battle of France? (I know it must be well known resource, but I cannot find it.)

Also, what book would be recommended that covers the air war in Poland and the Battle of France?

Thank you.

Bronc
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Old 12th May 2024, 23:58
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

Hi,
I wrote a book about airwar over Poland in September 1939 but it was not published and probably will be not published. I think I do have all Luftwaffe claims including bomber and recon units but the losses are for sure incomplete especially for recon units. But I did not summerized these numbers yet.
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Old 13th May 2024, 02:42
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

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Originally Posted by robert View Post
Hi,
I wrote a book about air war over Poland in September 1939 but it was not published and probably will be not published. I think I do have all Luftwaffe claims including bomber and recon units but the losses are for sure incomplete especially for recon units. But I did not summarized these numbers yet.
Important work, this. I am beginning to believe that Luftwaffe losses in Poland set the stage for Luftwaffe losses during the Battle of France which set the stage for Luftwaffe losses during the Battle of Britain which set the stage for...

Bronc
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Old 14th May 2024, 20:41
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

For the campaign in the West, I’d suggest “The Battle of France Then and Now” by Peter Cornwell https://www.abebooks.co.uk/first-edi...31643683646/bd
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Old 14th May 2024, 23:08
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

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For the campaign in the West, I’d suggest “The Battle of France Then and Now” by Peter Cornwell https://www.abebooks.co.uk/first-edi...31643683646/bd
Wow...

"Peter Cornwell now redresses the balance as he describes the day-to-day events as the battle unfolds, and details the losses suffered by all six nations Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Germany and, rather belatedly, Italy. The Royal Air Force lost more than a thousand aircraft of all types over the Western Front during the six-week battle, but Luftwaffe losses were even higher at over 1,800 aircraft. Having the disadvantage of fighting over foreign soil, the RAF had many men made prisoner when baling out or crashing behind enemy lines. All told, between September 3, 1939 and June 24, 1940, the RAF lost 1,127 airmen, of whom 415 paid the supreme sacrifice."
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Old 15th May 2024, 09:31
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

Strategy for defeat by Williamson Murray have see this table: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF....html#tableIII
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Old 15th May 2024, 10:22
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

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Originally Posted by Broncazonk View Post
I am beginning to believe that Luftwaffe losses in Poland set the stage for Luftwaffe losses during the Battle of France which set the stage for Luftwaffe losses during the Battle of Britain which set the stage for...

Bronc
All true but it's also worth considering the intervals between campaigns: Poland in September 1939, then a six month gap until Denmark and Norway in April 1940, which overlapped with the Low Countries/France in May. French Armistice on 25 June, two week pause until the »Kanalkampf« starts on 10 July, then the "intensified air war against England" opens on 13 August.

(Disclaimer: of course there was always something going on, even in the "gaps").

They did have a lot of time to replenish losses after Poland and absorb any tactical or technical lessons but that wasn't really true in the fighting from April 1940. I really don't know how you balance losses in combat against valuable experience gained by the survivors.
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Old 15th May 2024, 17:24
James A Pratt III James A Pratt III is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

The book Fledgling Eagles covers the air war in the west Sept 1939 to 9 may 1940 and the air war over Denmark and Norway.

online the is Luftwaffe in Norway Luftwaffe.no which has a Luftwaffe lost list
Luftwaffe-zur-see has a lost list of Luftwaffe seaplanes and martime units.
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Old 30th May 2024, 04:09
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

I've been working through the history of this and according to Williamson Murry in Strategy for Defeat, from May to September, 1940, the Luftwaffe twin-engine fighter force (Bf 110) lost between 94% - 96% of it's initial aircraft strength, that is: were destroyed from all causes. (In comparison, Ju 87 (Stuka) losses were 50%.)
.
The ~95% loss rate [in less than 5-months] on this twin-engine airframe would seem to be clear definitive proof of something. No? I mean, what the hell??
.
Why did the RLM/Luftwaffe stick with the Bf 110 day fighter, only to stumble around for several years with the even worse Bf 210 and then go back to the Bf 110?
.
A lot of good Luftwaffe pilots died over this absurdity...
.
Bronc
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Old 30th May 2024, 07:11
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Re: Luftwaffe Claims/Losses September '39 - June '40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncazonk View Post
I've been working through the history of this and according to Williamson Murry in Strategy for Defeat, from May to September, 1940, the Luftwaffe twin-engine fighter force (Bf 110) lost between 94% - 96% of it's initial aircraft strength, that is: were destroyed from all causes. (In comparison, Ju 87 (Stuka) losses were 50%.)
.
The ~95% loss rate [in less than 5-months] on this twin-engine airframe would seem to be clear definitive proof of something. No? I mean, what the hell??
.
Why did the RLM/Luftwaffe stick with the Bf 110 day fighter, only to stumble around for several years with the even worse Bf 210 and then go back to the Bf 110?
.
A lot of good Luftwaffe pilots died over this absurdity...
.
Bronc
You might also be interested in the OKW statistics at the bottom if this page, for the period 10 July—10 October 1940.
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