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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

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  #171  
Old 20th September 2018, 18:28
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Do17Z werk no. 4225 was at KOELLEDA 26/3/42

(source = HW5/76 @ TNA UK)
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  #172  
Old 20th September 2018, 18:33
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Report to FLEIGERFUEHRER SOUTH 26/3/42 gives:
werk no. 4624, 6N+BH in FOSCANI for repair
werk no. 4664, 6N+GL ditto
Both lacking airscrews

werk no. 4685, 6N+DL in ODESSA since 14/3

Note : 6N = I/Kg100

(source = HW5/76 @ TNA UK)
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  #173  
Old 20th September 2018, 18:38
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

I/KG. 76 reported 25/3/42 that it had :
Ju88 A/4 werk no. 3683, equipment B, F1+-H
Ju88 A/4 werk no.6726, equipment B, F1+CH

(source = HW5/76 @ TNA UK)
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  #174  
Old 20th September 2018, 18:47
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Bf110 C/5, F6+SC werk no. (?6)234: 100% damage (possible sabotage) on landing at NIKOLAJEW 10/3/42. Crew unhurt.

Heinkel (??)+C8, werk no. 4518 damaged, % unknown, engine failure during operational flight south of GRAMMATKOWO 17/3/42. Crew unhurt.

Bf 100 (sic) C/5 GM+EL, werk no. 2182, 100% loss. Crew missing: Obfw. LILIENTHAL and pilot Hptm. HORNUNG

(source = HW5/76 @ TNA UK)
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  #175  
Old 20th September 2018, 22:00
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Hi,

here are the corresponding Gen.Qu. loss returns:

27 March 1942 item 17:
10.3. 4.(F)/122 Feindflug, Ort: Fl.Pl. Nikolajew, Ursache: durch Sabotage zerstört, Bf 110 C-5 2234 100%

22 March 1942 item 16:
17.3. 3./KG 27 Feindflug, Ort: Grammatikowo, Ursache: Motorstörung, He 111 H-6 4518

25 March 1942 item 75 and addition from 21 April 1942:
18.3. 3.(F)/11 Feindflug, Auftrag: Halbinsel Kertsch, Ursache: unbekannt, Bf 110 2182 GM+EL 100%.
B Oblt Hornung, Elmar vermisst
F Ofw Lilienthal, Gerhard vermisst
Bf Uffz Stopf, Hans vermisst.

Regards
Leo
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  #176  
Old 9th October 2018, 13:47
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

"AT Nr. 888 0f 1.5.44

To Flgk 28 I Jagdgruppe 77, Lt. KUIKOW, UDINE.
Enquiries into the plane shot down at GOTTSCHE on 18.3.44, crew of which (N.C.O. GOLYASCH etc.) apparently with bandits, not instituted from here.
Signed. Lt. ANDERS, LAIBACH."


source = mHW16/14
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  #177  
Old 26th October 2018, 01:56
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

3/7/43 ISG.2 MILIS
Fw190, works number 1354, A5-U8 B(word illegible), (D% total loss) on the ground from direct hit.

-----
9/7/43 COMISO SARDINIA
Report for 9/7/43:
6 operations by 29 Bf109s, of these:
II/JG51, 3 operations by 6 Bf109s off-shore recce SARDINIA, 2 operations by 21 Bf109 scramble without interception. During last off-shore recce 1 Bf109, FW ZAHLMANN, ditched in 8906+ - 8907+ 03 E
III/JG77, 1 operation by 2 Bf109 off-shore recce SARDINIA.
Successes: NONE
Losses: 1 Bf109
----------
11/7/43
FLEIGERKORPS II
“If Bf109 with smoke projectors are sent, give them up at once to I/53, VIBO.”
(previous references to 21CM mortar bombs in connection with Bf109G-6 and with experimental detachment at VIBO)

--------
Source = HW5/280
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  #178  
Old 21st November 2018, 09:53
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Hi,

I hope Bruce won't mind me 'hijacking' the thread, but the Air War Publications team has put together a blog post dealing with one aspect of ULTRA: the accuracy of the translations. The post can be found here: https://airwarpublications.com/the-accuracy-of-ultra/

We hope people find it of interest.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com
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  #179  
Old 21st November 2018, 10:57
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Hello Andrew,
Very interesting discussion in the link, thanks for that.

Regards,
Bruce
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  #180  
Old 21st November 2018, 11:36
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Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

Seconded what Bruce said. Thanks Andrew.

I can only think of one case where Bletchley Park's translation quality-control really slipped:
CX/MSS/T209/183
Subject: identification marks of our a/c.
Lower part of cockpit cover and side fins yellow …
As written, that doesn't make a lot of sense but my guess is that "cockpit cover" in the original was Haube (=hood). That word is used both for a cockpit canopy and an engine cowling. The "side fins", were probably Seitenruder (= lateral rudder, the vertical control surface). The word is the same, singular or plural and the translator opted for the wrong one. The failing here is not relating words with multiple meanings to their context (the parts of an aircraft). Normally Bletchley was very good at that, so maybe it was somebody's first day on the job.

You can see how over the course of the war the analysts developed a far better understanding of the Luftwaffe's organisation, personalities and terminology. For my money the translators, analysts and clerks who maintained the card indexes and glossaries of technical terms are the unsung heroes of all this. The mathematical geniuses were vital but even after a day's key was broken, you barely had readable German, let alone useable intelligence.
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