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  #1  
Old 9th October 2018, 19:16
drifter206 drifter206 is offline
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Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Hello all
On 14.09.1943. Dornier Do 17Z-3 w.n.2673. 15.kroat /53 KG "crashed" on aux. airfield Gruda in Croatia. Aircraft was 100 % written off and maj Gerhard Joachim and ofw Emil Frey were injured.
Is there any luftwaffe loss details on this case.
And also is there any additional information (or picture) on Gerhard Joachim. He was staffelkapitan of 15. kroat/53KG. I cannot seem to find any information about him.



Sources (Ciglić, Savić- Dornier Do 17 Yugoslav story)
Michael Holm KG 53


as always, thanks in advance
Antun

Last edited by drifter206; 9th October 2018 at 19:17. Reason: additional info
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Old 9th October 2018, 19:21
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

1943-09-14, 15./KG 53, Do 17 Z-3, 2673, Gruda-Dubrownik
Flugzeugführer Major Joachim, Gerhard, +
Beobachter Ofw Gerbeth, Paul, +
Bordfunker Ofw Fleischhut, Artur, +
Bordmechaniker Ofw Frey, Emil, +
Kr.Ber. Sonderführ. Schoenen, Heinz, +
Beim Start ausgebrochen. Bruch 100 %.

Matti
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Old 9th October 2018, 20:01
drifter206 drifter206 is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Dear Sir, Matti


As always, thank you very much.
I salute you.
best regards
Antun
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Old 10th October 2018, 21:07
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Hello Antun,

the loss of the Do 17 Z WNr. 2673 on 14 Sep 1943 in Gruda-Dubrownik is noted in the GenQu. loss return of 20 Sep 1943 item 18 without stating the crewmembers.
According to two corrections (15 and 19 Oct 1943) Maj Joachim, Gerhard (F), Ofw Frey, Emil (Bm), Ofw Gerbeth, Paul (B) and Ofw Fleischhut, Artur (Bf) were injured, not killed in action.

Regards
Leo
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:09
drifter206 drifter206 is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Hello Rottler
Thank you very much for information.
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:58
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Leo/Antun

Since Matti very rarely make mistakes in his quotes from the NVM, could the crew have died later from their injuries? We also know that the NVM has far fewer mistakes than the GQM reports.

Also note the extra 'passenger' presented by Matti.

I must confess, I find it hard to believe that NVM should make a mistake when it comes to life and death for five individuals, but then again I don't know of course if that was so....or not...

B Rgds
Stig
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Old 11th October 2018, 17:52
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

I have to apologize, because of the huge mistake in my answer. The whole crew was really only wounded, as clearly stated in the NVM and in my database. I have no explanation, why I wrote "+" instead of "verletzt" except that it was not on purpose. Stig is correct when saying that NVM has far fewer mistakes than the GQM reports, but this time I was the one, who was not reliable . I'll try to improve in future.

Matti
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Old 12th October 2018, 09:50
drifter206 drifter206 is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

Dear Matti
Amount of information you gave me over last period was more than I gathered in one year. We all make mistakes, that is why this forum is discussion, not final verdict.

Yesterday I was on spot where this aircraft allegedly crashed and story will resurface for sure, things will appear over time. This is just a start.

But, without your work many things would be forgotten and people on spot would not have the whole picture. Keep up the good work, you made my research like a walk in the park .
best

Antun
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:44
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Dornier Do 17Z-3 crash 14.09.1943. Gruda (Croatia)

No worries Matti

Just proves we all are mortals after all. Thanks for your correction, since it is always awkward to hape discrepancies like this.

Cheers
Stig
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