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  #1  
Old 4th May 2019, 03:18
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Bf109G-6/U-3

Wow! My last visit Dec 2014!

Bf109G-6/U3. Am I chasing a phantom here?

I have a stack of books on the Bf109 and I am still trying to pin all the facts down. This is primarily for a miniatures game I have been hot and cold with since the days of my last visit here. For the Germans, MW50 would be a VERY IMPORTANT feature when tackling P-47s and so forth doing ground attack missions.

Here is what I have...
Most sources show the U2 (GM1), U3 (MW50), and U4 (30mm mk 108 nose cannon). I have seen build scheduling and production numbers for the U2 and the U4 but not the U3 with the MW50.

Quite a few sources say that some/many of the U2 GM1 planes were converted to U3 MW50. As far as I can tell, it seems that these planes were kept on the books as U2. Somewhere, maybe online on a message board, I recall a discussion about there being plenty of Bf109G-6/U3 April/May/June '44, bolted-on gauge for the instrument panel. Along comes the Bf109G-14 where the a/c come standard with the MW50 and the gauge is in the dash.

So, who is making, converting, or updating planes with MW50 equipment?
How many?
Serving with what units?
is there another designation for MW-equipped Gustavs before the Bf109G-14 starts coming off the assembly lines June-July '44?

(I also see some sources say the U3 is a recon variant, thinking NOT)

Thanks in advance

George
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Old 4th May 2019, 17:48
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Hello George,

Bf 109 G-6/U3 are listed in the "Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen" of NAG 2, 5, 11, 12 and 14 (www.ww2dk > air units > reconnaissance units). This points to a recce-version.

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Leo
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Old 4th May 2019, 20:54
Mikeju53 Mikeju53 is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Hi George,

I've just had a look in the "Messerschmidt Bf109 Recognition Manual" by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau, in which he states the following:-

"Contrary to popular belief, there was no official U3 designation for the G-5 or G-6 series. The G-5 was never intended to have MW50 power boost and the only G-6 to officially receive it was the reconnaissance G-6/R2, but with no U3 qualification of its designation...............It is however possible that some examples of the G-6/U2 could have been modified to take MW 50 but such aircraft cannot be considered as a separate version."

This might explain why you've not seen any production data for a U3.

Brgds
Mike
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Old 4th May 2019, 21:39
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is online now
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeju53 View Post
Hi George,

I've just had a look in the "Messerschmidt Bf109 Recognition Manual" by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau, in which he states the following:-

"Contrary to popular belief, there was no official U3 designation for the G-5 or G-6 series."

Brgds
Mike
That didn't stop NAGr. 11 declaring them amongst its aircraft on strength, however.
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Old 5th May 2019, 03:27
Harold Lake Harold Lake is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Kettbo,
I really comes down to your sources. But, understand that ONLY Geman wartime documents should be given serious consideration. Accordingly, I can say that these sources list the Bf 109 G-6/U3 as a short range reconnaissance fighter equipped with FuG 17 radio and 2 x Rb 12.5 / 7x 9 or 2 x Rb 32 / 7 x 9 cameras.
Hal
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Old 5th May 2019, 05:20
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Thank you Harold Lake, Nick Beale, MikeJu53, and Leo "Rottler"

WOW, lots of books mention U2

What about the many mentions of fighters with U2 being converted to U3?
I have been led to believe (somewhere) that MW50 was fairly common by APR-MAY '44 and that this common addition was made standard for the Bf109G-14. If the Germans have to wait until July to begin getting the Bf109G-14 so as to have MW50, things will be more of a challenge for them against the 9th TAAF!

Lots of info in Michulic's Messerschmitt Me109 pt2 at pg 38. Talks about converting GM1 to MW50 and also using the tank for more fuel (run the line to the fuel tank naturally).
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Old 5th May 2019, 17:00
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Hi George,
I think that you might find someone with data about MW50 conversions because I suspect that the orders to convert Bf109 aircraft will have existed.
As far as my info, I can say that the earliest date for data about MW50 conversion of GM1 installation on Bf109 is 10.4.44. The initial secret "Merkblatt fur Umrustung MW50" seems to have been 6.5.44 and, the secret document detailing the conversion (superceeding the merkblatt above) for the DB605A and AS to the AM and ASM in the Me109 is dated 20.6.44. Good luck with finding the conversion dates! Cheers

SM
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Old 5th May 2019, 21:43
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Hi George,
Just shooting from the hip and, you asked! I suspect that apart from the new-build of DB605AM and ASM for new production 109's, the large scale remanufacture of 109's would have included upgrading aircraft to the MW50 standard on rebuild/repair in some sort of program after about Jun '44. I would also suggest that because the fitment of the large fuselage tank was only possible on newbuild /rebuild, the initial rate of conversion of GM1 to MW50 equipped aircraft would only be relatively slow as, I do not think there were that many GM1 aircraft to convert?
Over to the production experten!

SM
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:50
kettbo kettbo is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

SM

Thank you for the replies!
IF the rebuild facilities upgrade the old airframes to AM/ASM and it is late June...likely they would have called them "G-14" at this stage of the game.

As there were more Bf109G-6/AS coming out in the spring of 1944, seems those would perform better, at altitude, than the Bf109G-6/U2. (my recollection). Seems to me that many of these GM1 planes would be due for a refresh (and very possibly) conversion to WM50 after 6 months or so of use. Converting GM1 to MW50 is pretty basic, swap the inlet nozzle. OTOH, converting a standard plane from no boost to an MW50 set-up would require some fine work.

I'll keep looking.
I really would like to know, JUNE and Early July, who might have had MW50 boosted Gustavs on the Invasion Front before the Bf109G-14s reached units.
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Old 6th May 2019, 23:16
schwarze-man schwarze-man is offline
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Re: Bf109G-6/U-3

Hi George,
Unfortunately, I am more involved with the technical side. I do not have the data you ask after about unit types. Cheers

SM
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