Seenot.Gr.80

[Brian]

Hi guys

I am not very genned up on Luftwaffe units, so can anyone enlighten me with regard to the above. Apparently an Me410 from this unit, flown by an Oblt Langer, shot down a Mosquito of 157 Squadron during a daylight search sortie on 29/9/44.

Over to the experts, please!

Cheers
Brian

[Chris Goss]

Bit of a strange unit. Langer was credited with an aircraft on this day (apparently a Halifax). Unit was operating Me 410s from Jever (I have just 2 losses-3 Nov 44 Wk Nr 420506 and 5 Nov Wk Nr 420444)

[Brian]

Thanks Chris

Brian

[Brian Bines]

The book 'MosquitoPanik!' shows that F/L Vincent of 157 Sqd. claimed a Me 410 as a probable 10m ESE of Yarmouth on 29/30th Sept. I have not seen the combat report but did each pilot claim the other? If the 410 was from a Seenot. unit could it have been looking for missing He 111 V-1 Launcher crews? KG3 reported two crews missing on 29th. Sept including a St.Kap.

[Brian]

Thanks Brian - I hadn't thought of that.

Cheers
Brian

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi All

I took a closer look of what has been listed by various authors regarding Seenot units.
Seenotgruppe 80 was formed in October 1944 and consisted of ONE single staffel, the Seenotstaffel 80. This staffel was formed by re-naming Seenotstaffel 4 also in October 1944. Both units were disbanded in May 1945.

Some of these units were obviously equipped with protection. Me 410 not only equipped this unit, but Seenotgruppe/Seenotstaffel 60 as well. Another Seenotgruppe/Staffel that used Fw 190 for its protection was number 20. I must admit this was all new info to me, since locating Me 410/Fw 190 in such a places was not what first crossed my mind.

Can anyone enlighten me WHY Luftwaffe had such a, at least looking like it, top heavy and bureaucratic air-sea rescue organisation? Why re-name already working staffeln and on top creating a Gruppe on top of each? What was all this supposed to do? Did really these units become MORE effective due to all this?

I know that today, management just love to re-organise, shuffle around, split up working teams and create new ones etc, etc. This might of course fit some and not others and keep persons on their toes, but you also loose a lot of the team-spirit and comradship and, military, belonging to a unit (Esprit de Corp) on the way.

The longer the war lasted Luftwaffe bureaucrats seems to loose more and more touch with reallity and re-name units and shovel around persons who, I am sure in the end, had NO idea where they actually belonged, and to me this does not sound like a very good idea. A very good point is the creation of a fourth staffel in the Jagdwaffe. I am sure many individuals at the time was privately wondering what the h..l their Brass were doing....

I also notice that this was something that the Allies did not practice.
It also looks like the Allies had much less bureaucracy, at least their fighting edge. As soon as you get behind the front line I guess ALL sides are just as bureaucratic.

Cheers
Stig

[Nick Beale]

One possibility is that the Gruppe consisted of a flying Staffel and a sea-going Flotille.

Seenotteilstaffel (Land) 20 operated in Italy (Campoformido-Udine) from October 1944 to April 1945 and seems largely to have been engaged in reconnaissance over the Adriatic with the Fw 190 A-8.

What little I know about it is in "Air War Italy 1944-45" (Beale, D'Amico & Valentini, 1996).

[Brian Bines]

Stig in view of your comments on management I thought you might be interested in the following which is pinned up where I work - ' We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation br reorganising, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation' (Caius Petronius AD 66)

[Brian]

Hi guys

I have just been advised that SGN80 also had Do24s.

Cheers
Brian

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Nick, Brian and Brian

It seems to me that those Seenotgruppen/staffeln most likely to be on search and rescue in enemy areas, that is looking for lost aeroplanes/crews in offensive warfare, were those equipped with fighter aeroplanes, while those searching in home waters did not have that privelidge.

It should be said that they all of course operated other types more suitable for landing in the water as well...

Thanks Brian for the Roman quote. What a clear mind they did have in those days and how little we have learned during the past 2000 years, or should I say 20000 years???

Cheers
Stig