Beaufort AW205 86 Sqn 17 Jul 41

[Chris Goss]

Can anyone confirm whether this aircraft fell to Flak or fighters?

[Alex Smart]

The Beaufort File only has "Missing minelaying off Schiermonnikoog. 17.7.41".

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Alex. The F540 notes a ball of flame was seen going down to hit the sea

[Stig Jarlevik]

For what it is worth, John Foreman states Flak, possibly because there were
no relevant night or day fighter claim, but can we entirely rule out ordnance failure?

Since 86Sq job at the time was mainly minelaying but with an added direct anti-shipping
(torpedo strikes) role, do you know the exact purpose for this mission Chris?

Foreman does not mention any timeframe either so if you can add that it would be a bonus.

B Rgds
Stig

[Chris Goss]

Stig: minelaying after midnight

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Chris

My own "verdict" would be ordnance failure in this case, which is of course said without any
proof what-so-ever.

A stray lucky Flak hit is of course possible, but a mine going off inside a Beaufort would
certainly create a "ball of fire"

B Rgds
Stig

[Chris Goss]

There was a claim for a Beaufort by I./NJG 2 right time and location but this appears to have been 24 hours later

[Stig Jarlevik]

I looked at that one Chris

Both Foreman and Boiten say he claimed a Blenheim (which of course is much the same thing),
but Foreman says it was over the North Sea 120km NE of Great Yarmouth while Boiten says 50 km
west Den Helder at 03.02H. Pretty much the same area I guess
Boiten links this to a damaged Wellington that night while Foreman has no idea at all.

Unfortunately Schiermonnikoog is not in that area so I confess I lean more on Boiten's expertice
in this case

B Rgds
Stig

[Chris Goss]

By my checking, I./NJG 2 made 146 claims during their intruder campaign of which 53 can be matched with RAF losses (they never claimed damaged albeit a number of aircraft were badly damaged). Wildly over-optimistic and in some cases the honesty of some claimants comes into question

[Leendert]

wasn't there a POW as well, Sgt D.G.C. Buck? Perhaps his postwar report has survived somewhere.
Also, Hubergatt (a buoy?) near the small island of Rottumeroog (north of the Dutch province of Groningen) is also mentioned as place of loss, so neighboring island of Schiermonnikoog isn't too wild a guess.

The KTB Seekriegsleitung for 17.7.1941 notes the entry of 30 e/a in area, of which "1 Abschuss durch HS-Boot, 2 durch Nachtjäger". Of course these must be matched with other known losses...

Regards,
Leendert