Loss of Ju 88A-4 Wnr.881398 on 16.02.1943

[Melvin Brownless]

Hi Guys,

I am searching for crew details and fate of the crew of Ju 88 Wnr.881398 which was involved in a mid-air collision with another Ju 88A-4 Wnr.(88)3527 piloted by Lt. Klaus Dold of 9./KG51 on the 16th February 1943.
Location given 20 km NE of Saporoshje, Ukraine.

I am currently constructing a page of remembrance for Heinrich Hummel who was the Bordfunker of Lt. Dold. Would like to include the fate of the crew from the other Ju 88.

Kind regards,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

[Reiner]

Hi Melvin.

The crew of the Ju 88 Wnr.881398 is not named in the loss report . This means the crew was not injured. The Ju 88A-4 9K + PT, Wnr.3527 crashed. The crew Lt. Dold ,Fw.Truczinski(B), Uffz.Hummel (Bf) and Uffz.Diehls (Bs) died.Here are two photos from my collection. The first shows a sketch of the mission of 16.2.1943. The blue cross near Noworossisk show the crashsite of the crew Uffz.Brehm on 19.2.1943.The second photo shows from left zo right Lt.Niklaus Dold, Lt.Richard Pahl (KIA 19.4.1944 England) and Oblt.Johannes Richter (MIA Russia 17.09.1942). This photo was taken September 1942 at Tazinskaja airfield.


Rene

[Melvin Brownless]

Many thanks for the info & pics Rene, very interesting indeed. I am quite busy right now but will send you a private message over the weekend.

Kind regards,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

[gogh]

Hi All
Ju 88 Wnr.881398 is this plane converted to a P-1 ?

source http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/a...-10-10-41.html
has this as WNr.1398 as P-1 on -1943-04-19

[Peter Achs]

Ju 88 1398 was at Merseburg in February 1943 for conversion into P-1 and not in Ukraine. First flight as P-1 at Merseburg on 24 March 1943 .

Regards
Peter

[Stig Jarlevik]

Peter/gogh

I find it hard to believe WNr 1398 was both w/o (or even only damaged) on 16/2 somewhere in Russia, get back to Germany in the same month, and get converted to a P-1 by the next month, so if the docs you quote from are correct, what was damaged/written off in Russia together with the 88, 3527?

Just curious...

Cheers
Stig

[edNorth]

"Luftwaffe in focus" No. 6, page 25, has 1398 not as Ju 88, but Ju 87
(in relation to its loss) but besides the Ju 88 A-4 "1398" was only 50% damaged, but can be wrong number reported.

1398 Ju 88 P-1 Versuchskommando für Panzerbekämpfung (Lw.Kdo.Öst East)
OPS (F) was shot down by <enemy> tank fire (100%) at Woterfitz-See 19.04.1943 (crew uninjured) (reported as Ju 88 P1 1398 in GQM Verband losses 177.) 23.04.43

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Ed

If I read Axel Urbanke correct, he believes the aircraft which collided with WNr 3527 to have been the 'genuine' Ju 88A-4 WNr 1398.

He also believes that the aircraft which was destroyed from the Versuchskommando für Panzerbekämpfung to have been a Ju 87 (G perhaps?) WNr (87)1398. He thinks there is some kind of clerical mistake behind all this.

That thinking clearly contradicts both Peter and Gogh's thoughts. What exactly does the loss record state? Just Ju 88 or more detailed Ju 88 P-1? I can imagine a typing error if the loss only states Ju 88 but if the loss record says Ju 88 P-1 it is no longer a typo, it is a complete misunderstanding of what had happened, which is much more difficult to do, but not impossible of course.

Since Peter (I think) is quite interested especially in these experimental versions, I wonder what he in fact has regarding the Ju 88 P-1? Sometimes when studying a topic intensely there can be a feeling what is correct and what is not, without any real written proof!

Interesting topic....

Cheers
Stig

[Peter Achs]

You can be shure that this was an Ju 88 P-1 with W-Nr. 1398.
See the attached pages of 2 FB's. One gives the aircraft as 1398 and the other as CI+WP and P-1. (1398 had the Stkz CI+WP ).

The document "Erprobungsträger PAK 40" from 22 April 1943 (source: BA/MA Freiburg RL 36/65) gives this Ju 88 with s/n and Stkz as an (former) aircraft of the "Versuchskommando für Panzerbekämpfung". (Have no copy, only notes.)

The GQM entry for Ju 88 1398 from 1943 must be wrong. I think the entry from 1942 is right.
23.01.42, K.Fl.Gr.606, 40% (BA/MA Freiburg, RL 2 III/1179)

Regards
Peter

[Merlin]

The loss report from III./KG 51 gives: Ju 88A-4 WNr. 1398

Axel's theory does not match because all the early Ju 87G-1 were in the Werknummer range 10xx and 11xx and non in 13xx.