Mustang loss, Italy, December 13, 1943

[Brian R]

Hi Guys - I have reference to a Mustang shot down by German (Heer) Flak on December 13, 1943 at 3:30 pm about 1.5 km north of San Giorgio in Italy. I'm assuming that this the San Giorgio that is located near Naples but I'm not sure. If so, my understanding is that German ground troops were fighting a bit to the north at this point, and that they were in this vicinity about a month or so earlier. The lines weren't so cut and dry at the time though, so I guess its possible.

Does anyone have any record of such an Allied casualty on this day? If not a Mustang, possibly a Thunderbolt?

I really appreciate any feedback!

Thanks,
Brian

[Leendert]

Brian,

There was a P-40 loss (41-20012, 324th FG) near Cervaro on 13 Dec 1943. Pilot Lt Dorman W. Landtroop POW.
Cervaro is given as location, which is just east of Cassino.There is a San Giorgio a Liri to the SW of Cassino.

Perhaps other board members have MACR 1521 to see if things match up.

Regards,

Leendert

[SteveB]

If the aircraft identification is correct then in December 1943 the only candidate would be a USAAF A-36A from one of the Bomb Groups.

Steve

[John Beaman]

Steve B is correct. In this time period there were no P-51 B/C/D a/c in the theater. There were some A-36 machines left as he says.

[Revi16]

Here's a list of MACR for Dec. 43. The only one in Italy on Dec. 13th was a P-40 as stated above.

http://www.accident-report.com/MACR/1943/m194312.html

[Brian R]

Guys - Thanks for the replies (and please excuse my delaying in responding).

This is all quite interesting. The claim/kill sheet I have specifies Mustang but I wonder if this is a similar phenomenon as when guys would refer to German tanks as Tigers. I have seen a substantial amount of reports of US ground troops referring to sightings and/or engagement with Tigers when the actual tank models varied - it seems that a Panzer IV, or something similar, could have been mistaken for ,or reported as, a Tiger in many scenarios. Perhaps German ground troops referenced Mustangs when they were actually attacked by planes such as the P-40, the same way ground troops referred to Tigers.

[Nick Hector]

Just a question on this one:

As John Beaman has pointed out, the A-36 was still the variant of this aircraft in service at the time and was being operated by ground attack units. Can somebody advise me of the dates when the fighter units of the 12th and 15th AAFs gave up their Spitfires and P-40s for actual P-51s? I have this kind of info for most of the 8th and 9th AAF units but somehow the mediterranean theatre reamains a bit of a blur in my general knowledge of US equipment and its operation...

[Leendert]

Not to interfere with the A-36, P-40, P-47 and/or P-51 discussion when they had their roles in the MTO, but as a small matter of interest this e-mail from the grandson of Lt Landtroop in the Stalag Luft One guestbook of 2001 (merkki.com):

Name: Evan Landtroop
Hometown: Phoenix, Arizona
Sent: 8.19 PM - 3/18 2001
I am the grandson of the now deceased First lieutenant Dorman Landtroop. He flew in a P-40, and was shot down in a bombing run by small arms fire. I hold great respect for him, and the men who died trying to take Cassino Monastery. He was taken to the prison camp this site describes, and talks about. Thank you for contributing to the memory of the men who fought in WW2 and became POW's.

Regards,

Leendert