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  #1  
Old 20th July 2016, 11:10
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
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Ju 52/3m (See) to France

In February and March 1946 a total of six Ju 52 floatplanes ex. 3./T.G.1 left List and transferred via Felixstowe to France. Can anyone give further info about these aircraft. We all know about the French use of landplane Ju 52, but these floatplanes seems to have escaped the radar.
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  #2  
Old 20th July 2016, 19:25
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

I have seen several wartime photos of Ju 52/3m floatplanes. Of these, only one showed the full fuselage code, which was the 5 part prewar code.





Ed
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  #3  
Old 23rd July 2016, 23:23
Pegasus123 Pegasus123 is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Hi
I asked some friends in France but unfortunately no one knows anything about it.
It seems a bit strange to me that France got used German aircrafts 8 months after the end of war while Amiot continued producing "new" aircrafts after the liberation in 1944.

May I ask you where you have got this information?


Harry
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  #4  
Old 24th July 2016, 00:11
Rémi Baudru Rémi Baudru is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Bonjour,

These Ju 52 with floats where put again on wheels just after they arrived in France.

Regards.
RB
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Old 24th July 2016, 09:17
Rémi Baudru Rémi Baudru is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Bonjour,

You can find some informations on the very good french site "Aéroforum" where most of the french historians are writing.

In january 2016, two french historians have written the following informations :

Philippe COUDERCHON :

"De retour à la maison je replonge vite fait dans mes papiers, et je retrouve un texte que j'avais écrit pour REPLIC en 1998 à propos d'une très belle maquette du 52 au 1/48°.
Sous l'occupation la SECM-Colombes et la SNCASO-Surennes ont produit 537 Ju 52/3m entre juin 1942 et juillet 1944 dans les versions g10e et g14e sur une commande totale de 1068 avions. Dans le même temps chez G&R on a sorti 4960 moteurs BMW 132 Z de l'usine de Kerllerman à Paris. A la libération, il restait 82 cellules finies à 60% et 230 autres finies à 30%.
A partir de décembre 1944 les AAC ont produit 415 avions de type AAC.1 et ont transformé 36 ju 52/3m en version française AAC.1.
Pour les numéros constructeurs, actuellement rien ne permet d'aligner les numéros allemands des numéros français 1000 à 1036, mais en cherchant un peu on trouve quelques WNr., dont les 640174, 640175 et autres, venant de Leck en avril 46, des versions g8e à flotteurs qui deviennent vite des avions à roues. D'autres comme les WNr.501315 et 641319.
Pour les WNr. des avions construits sous l'occupation, on trouve des numéros à 5 chiffres comme les avions détruits à Villacoublay le 5 février 1944 dont les WNr.10394, 10396, 10397, 10398, 10399, 10400, 10402 et 10406. je ne vois pas de WNr. à 6 chiffres pour les Ju 52, tout comme pour les Bf 108 des Mureaux."

Lucien MORAREAU :

"Début 1946, la Marine eu vent (normal pour des marins…) de la présence de quelques Ju.52 hydro dans l’île de Sylt, dans la mer du Nord, alors sous contrôle britannique. Le 10 février, le CC Rousselot, chef du Service Réception et Convoyage basé aux Mureaux se rendit sur place et négocia le transfert de quelques appareils. Des mauvaises gens ont prétendus que ces négociations furent conduites sur la base de caisses de Cognac, récemment « libérées » par justement la Marine et de bons esprits l’on cru…
Le 18, Rousselot décolla le premier appareil et, après une escale "ravito" à Felixtowe, arriva aux Mureaux le 19. J’ignore le nombre et les dates des autres convoyages mais je pense que ça n’a pas du dépasser la demi-douzaine.
Aux Mureaux, les Ju étaient mis au sec et leurs flotteurs remplacés par des trains terrestres classiques puis, après un coup de chiffon et de peinture, versés en unités.
Inutile de me demander les W/N de ces appareils, ils ne sont pas mentionnés dans les carnets de vol. "

Philippe COUDERCHON :

"Comme il y a eu 38 Ju 52/3m ex Luftwaffe transformés en AAC.1 et le plus proche possible de la dernière version allemande g14e, nous mettons à part l'avion, disons un des avions du gros Hermann (versé au GLAM, ce doit être le n/c 1001 et il est facilement reconnaissable avec une fenêtre ronde près de la porte côté gauche, une tôle recouvrant le dessus du moteur central et surtout une caractéristique de beaucoup de Ju 52 civils, des échappements du moteur central en partie noyés dans le fuselage).
Il reste 37 avions dont les 36 autres venant du lot transféré par les Anglais aux Français (dont 9 avions à flotteurs venant du groupe 1./TG1 et basé en fin de guerre sur l'île de Sylt de type g6e et g8e mais je ne connais sur ces 9 que 4 WNr., les 640171, 640174, 640175 et 640177).
Le dernier étant surement récupéré directement sur le sol français."

For your information, LES MUREAUX is along the seine river. Just after the war, the airplane factory SCAN and a french naval base where on this spot near the Seine river.

Regards.
RB
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Old 24th July 2016, 19:07
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Thank you Remi. The problem is that I have minimal knowledge of the French language. Could I be bold enough to ask for an English translation.
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Old 25th July 2016, 14:44
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Philippe Couderchon:

"Back home I quickly plunged back in my papers, and I found a text that I had written for REPLIC in 1998 about a beautiful model of 52 to 1/48 °.
Under occupation and the SECM-Colombes SNCASO-Surennes produced 537 Ju 52/3m between June 1942 and July 1944 in g10e and g14e versions and a total control of 1068 aircraft. Meanwhile at G & R released 4960 BMW 132 engines Z plant Kerllerman in Paris. Upon surrender, there were 82 finished cells 60% and 230 others finished at 30%.
Since December 1944, the AAC has produced 415 aircraft type and AAC converted 36 Ju 52/3m into French AAC.1.
For numbers manufacturers currently nothing aligns the German numbers of French numbers from 1000 to 1036, but when looking around there are some WNr., With 640174, 640175 and others from Leck April 46 versions g8e on floats which quickly were put on wheels. Others like WNr. 501315 and 641319.
For W.Nr. aircraft built under occupation, there are 5-digit numbers [read eight digit (052 10001) -ed] such as aircraft destroyed Villacoublay February 5, 1944 which WNr. 10394, 10396, 10397, 10398, 10399, 10400, 10402 and 10406. I see no WNr. 6 digits for the Ju 52, as for the Bf 108 Mureaux. "

Lucien Morareau:

"In early 1946, the Navy had wind (normal for sailors ...) the presence of some hydro Ju.52 the island of Sylt in the North Sea, then under British control. On February 10, the CC Rousselot, head of Reception and Conveying based in Les Mureaux went on site and negotiated the transfer of some equipment. the bad people have alleged that these negotiations were conducted on the basis of cases of Cognac, recently "liberated" by precisely the Navy and good minds we thought ... 18, Rousselot took off the first device and after a "ravito" stop for Felixstowe, arrived in Les Mureaux on 19. I do not know the number and dates of other escorts but I think it does not exceed the half dozen.
Les Mureaux, Ju were hauled their floats and replaced with conventional land train then after just one wipe and paint, paid in units.
No need to ask me the W / N of these devices, they are not mentioned in the flight logs. "

Philippe Couderchon:

"As there were 38 Ju 52/3m former Luftwaffe transformed into AAC.1 and as close as possible to the latest German version g14e we put aside the plane, say an aircraft wholesale Hermann (paid at GLAM, it must be the n / 1001 and it is easily recognizable with a round window near the left side door, a sheet covering the top of the central engine and especially a feature of many Ju 52 civilians, exhausts the core engine part embedded in the fuselage).
It remains 37 aircraft with 36 others from the lot transferred from English to French (9 of float planes coming from 1./TG 1 group based at the end of war on Sylt Island g6e type and g8e but I know that these 9, four were WNr. 640171, 640174, 640175 and 640177). The latter is probably recovered directly on French soil."

TOCH 24.07.2016 (google translate, minour adaptation) -Ed
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Old 25th July 2016, 15:17
Seaplanes Seaplanes is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

Thanks a million Mr. North. You saved my day. I thought about Google translate, but I have mixed experiences with this system.
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  #9  
Old 25th July 2016, 16:11
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Ju 52/3m (See) to France

You are welcome. Had already done this for future reference. -Ed
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