9 December 1943 - YAK 1 loss (Lipfert's 74th victory)

[Nick Hector]

Adriano,


First of all, thanks for your last post in the thread expressing gratitude.

BUT....

I cannot take more than my fair share of the credit. As I stated in my previous post, I am indebted to the guys that did the research for the listing of Lipfert's opponents, for the most part, I merely COMPILED IT.
So the one man you need to thank the most is HGabor.

You can find the original work here:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=1262&page=14

So, let it be said, the guy you owe most gratitude to is him. I would be plagiarising otherwise and fair... ...is fair

Nick

[kirche]

Hello Adriano,
Thanks for the kind words. But I do not see much merit in the fact that I know my native language.
Battles in the south in Russia, I know superficially. And what I wrote (not very skillfully) in this topic has already been published in the Russian Internet segment. For example, the article by Ivan Lavrinenko (he also used the books of Bernd Barbas, the data of Matti Salonen and Alexei Pekarsh). https://warspot.ru/7857-generaly-gra...apitan-kamozin
There are also many details of that battle on the website dedicated to Kamozin ( "The Society of Veterans of Aviation named after twice Hero of the Soviet Union P.M. Kamozin" of Bryansk) - for example, in the article by A.P. Romanov has a complete official description of the two missions on December 5, 1943 from operational reports of the 66 IAP and 329 IAD
https://kamozin100.ucoz.net/publ/sta..._kryma/1-1-0-2

Best regards,
Kirill

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Dear Gabor, Nick and Kirill,

Sadly the language indeed was and Always will be a problem for most of us. For instance my first published work (biography of Captain Gordon Fox Rule, DFC, CdG* - Brazilian Greatest Ace of the Great War, 1914-18) was written in Portuguese, although there are several foreigners interested in Reading it in English language too.

I was eager to read the PRIEN Series about JG 27 and also am interested on several Works about KG 55, KG 6, KG 66 and JG 77 (an Oberfeldwebel Wilhelm Baumgartner may be a distant relative of mine), all written in GERMAN (Deutsch) language.

Thankfully am able to read in FRENCH and ENGLISH therefore, most of the books I have acquired were on those two languages.

Like most of us, the appearance of Internet allowed us to have a huge access to relatives, to Editors, to new sites (like this one) and a fantastic exchanging of experiences, knowledge, pictures, documents, etc...WE ALL do gain with that broader Picture.

I do confess that it is indeed very very difficult for South Americans like myself to have access to authoritive Historians and their work about the Russian Front. Am aware that there are several of you in Russia, Hungary, Slovenia, etc...doing a fantastic job; sometimes discovering wrecks and writing about the stories behind those ghosts of the past.

I translated from the Russian language the passage for the 5th December 1943 from one of the sites you shared. One can see that both the German side (LW) and Russian original reports (VVS) do have "a bit of Propaganda style". I do not blame either side....it is transcribed like it was...

Just for instance a friend of mine found some harsh words of the Brazilian Commanding Officer of the 1st Brazilian Fighter Squadron (attached to the 350th FG) about at least one case of indiscipline. Those words or comments were Always ommitted inside the "Official Sources" and the case was totally "covered"...Anyway, just to show that even cross-checking sources, etc...we will NEVER be 100% accurate....we can have our own ideas of one side of History, just one vague idea....

Returning to the LAGG 5FN claim of Lipfert on 4th January 1945...although it was only the 16th combat mission of Suhorukhov, LIPFERT on his memories (War Diary) do write that this Russian pilot was "his match or equal" in hability!

I am now working on a major book-tribute about the Brazilians that flew for the RAF, RCAF, SAAF, etc. in WW2...and am considering writing it in English rather than Portuguese language, so a broader range of persons will be able to read...and honor them....Hope to read some books about the Russian Campaign too, in a near futur, by one of you, Members of this Fórum, to enhance my knowledge.

Again I do thank you both, for the patience and sharing of your knowledge and expertise about those 3 claims I was looking more details of Lipfert's amazing career.

Congratulation to the Russian Historians quoted on this thread whose sites and researches are just amazing. Keep going guys...

Humbly yours,
Adriano Silva Baumgartner, ASV 00.344

[HGabor]

Adriano, thank you and good luck to your project! Good news: I almost forgot, but finally found the pics: few years ago one of our researcher friends found the remains of a soviet La-5 in the Tardos-Tarján area. Even the smashed spinner has been found. After cleaning the nice, original red color became visible! Now I must say that the 530 IAP probably had red spinners and white rudders... So .... I think there is a good chance, that this recovered spinner belonged to Suhorukhov's downed plane on January 4, 1945 that Lipfert described in his diary...!

Gabor

[Nick Hector]

Sheer brilliance, Gabor

I am with Adriano on this one: keep up the good work and please pass our regards to the amazing guys that are researching the archives and excavating the crashes

[HGabor]

Thank you Nick. Just a few days ago son of Gv.Capt. Armen Artemovich Karakozov visited Nagymányok, Hungary and the crash site of his Dad that he never knew... His Dad was the captain of soviet 14 GvAP DD B-25 Mitchell (S/N. 42-32474, Red '12') on August 9/10, 1944 when Fw. Eckart Ulmer (8./NJG 6) downed them. Their Mitchell unit flew partisan supply-drop missions over Yugoslavia and German night fighters were hunting for them during their approach. According to the soviet mission report that we have, they took off from Kalinovka and dropped the No.2527, 2526, 2553, 2540, 2525, 2567, 2575 and 2619 supply containers at Samarica, Croatia. They were downed on their way back over Hungary. In the village original crash photos showed the wrecks and '474' was visible on it. Yurii visited the site in the forest with my friends' team and wanted to be there alone for a while... Then he took a bag of soil ... when ironically 2 more pieces of melted aluminum chunks were found. After having a nice lunch, reviewing the recovered wrecks of his Dad's plane, placing flowers to the memorial of the six, once "unknown" soviet airmen in the village, he returned to Russia. It's shocking to see as he places flowers to his own father's memorial... He also took some soil to the brother of one of his father's crewmembers whom he knows, and who was too old now for the trip and could not come with him. Another "case" is closed. Hard to say anything.

[Nick Hector]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Thank you Nick. Just a few days ago son of Gv.Capt. Armen Artemovich Karakozov visited Nagymányok, Hungary and the crash site of his Dad that he never knew... His Dad was the captain of soviet 14 GvAP DD B-25 Mitchell (S/N. 42-32474, Red '12') on August 9/10, 1944 when Fw. Eckart Ulmer (8./NJG 6) downed them. Their Mitchell unit flew partisan supply-drop missions over Yugoslavia and German night fighters were hunting for them during their approach. According to the soviet mission report that we have, they took off from Kalinovka and dropped the No.2527, 2526, 2553, 2540, 2525, 2567, 2575 and 2619 supply containers at Samarica, Croatia. They were downed on their way back over Hungary. In the village original crash photos showed the wrecks and '474' was visible on it. Yurii visited the site in the forest with my friends' team and wanted to be there alone for a while... Then he took a bag of soil ... when ironically 2 more pieces of melted aluminum chunks were found. After having a nice lunch, reviewing the recovered wrecks of his Dad's plane, placing flowers to the memorial of the six, once "unknown" soviet airmen in the village, he returned to Russia. It's shocking to see as he places flowers to his own father's memorial... He also took some soil to the brother of one of his father's crewmembers whom he knows, and who was too old now for the trip and could not come with him. Another "case" is closed. Hard to say anything.

Gobsmacking....

As I am sure you know (...but for the benefit of other forum users....)
That one was just the first of two legitimate victories that Ulmer achieved that night. Three quarters of an hour later, he shot down 43-3507/"Red 4" of 14 GAPDD. That was the crew of GvLt. Pchelov KIA. The plane burned down a house, with a young boy killed by burning fuel

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Dear Gabor and all, sorry for the delay in answering back.

Firstly thank you for sharing the pictures of what possibly is the spinner of the LAGG 5FN from Suhorukhov. Nice finding and interesting information about the red spinner, although Lipfert did mention a red trailing painting from the cockpit backwards (from memory), on his memories…

I was deeply touched and impressed by the amazing story of Karakozov. The picture of the son visiting the rest place of his father is poignant and very emotive. Thank you for sharing that with us. The picture speaks for itself…I lost my greatest friend and wing-man, my father, some 14 years ago…I can only guess what Mr. Karakozov passed through all those years…

There is no money in the world that can pay back the happiness you gave this son to finally met his late father (or finding the rest place of his father and crew). I can only imagine what he passed through and all those years, to finally (and thanks to the internet) finding the full story…Congratulations to all the Hungarian Team of Researchers that made that possible…really…and thank you for sharing that with us. I wish that soon a book with all those stories of air combats in your country, Hungary, will arose one day, in English language, so many around will be able to read too.
And…his unselfish act of taking some sand of this place (accident local) to give to the son of one of his father’s crewmembers, it is something!

Some years ago I got in touch with Mrs. Sarah V. Mosher (member of this Forum too), who was writing about the ex-fiancé of his late mother, a Canadian named Jimmy Muir, from Trois Rivières which was shot down after and near Arnhem in September 1944.

She gave me some information about the story, although I never read her book personally….another case of love that war broke or stopped. I remember her informing that her mother passed some part of 1946 or 1947 trying to find the rest place of her fiancé….finally finding. Another amazing story.

Congratulations and thanks for sharing all that with us. There are many persons doing great stuff to preserve History and the deeds and stories that seems were forgot by the new generations. Like I said before, the language is very difficult barrier…not every published work in German (JG 27, KG 6, KG 27, etc.) is translated to English and a very very small parcel of what Is published in Hungary and Russia is also translated to English language. Anyway, one tends to preserve one’s History by writing in our mother language, isn’t it?

Are you the Gabor of the DH-2 project or that one that lives in Canada? I do have a great friend named Gabor in Hungary…anyway…Cheerio Gabor and keep going.

Most humble and grateful,
Adriano S. Baumgartner

Sorry this is the third time I do try to answer you back, but internet keep falling here...the first answer was more complete than this one...

[HGabor]

Adriano, I tried to send a PM, but was rejected due to space limitation, so please make a little more space in your mailbox. Here are a few more pics (of the many) on Gv.Capt. Armen Artemovich Karakozov - with his B-25C-15-NA Mitchell (42-32474, Red '12'), and his son's visit as he takes some soil from his father's crash site in the forest were a few more aluminum pieces were found, and in discussion with our team, reviewing the recovered parts of the plane.

Gabor

[HGabor]

Few more details of Karakozov's B-25C Mitchell. Detail of soviet 14 GvAP DD mission plan (TsAMO archives) for the night of August 09/10, 1944 Yugoslav supply-drop mission with the 7 assigned B-25s and their crews, including the 2 planes, lost to German night fighter(s): Karakozov's 42-32474, red '12' and Pchelov's 43-3507, red '4'. Plane No.22 has been cancelled, so finally only 6 flew the mission to Yugoslavia that night. Another pic shows '474' on the wreck at Nagymányok and another one shows Hungarian soldiers removing the live ammo from the wrecks in -, and beside the Nagymányok forest.

Gabor