Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th March 2017, 12:48
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 462
hanshauprich is on a distinguished road
Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

Good morning,
what was the reason that Officers served as "simple" Air Gunners with Bomber Command?
Bests,
h.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15th March 2017, 12:55
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,193
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

Commissioned from the ranks and usually ended up as Gunnery Leader on the Sqn i.e the senior AG on the Sqn
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15th March 2017, 13:12
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 462
hanshauprich is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

Thanks Chris!
The reason for my question, at the last weekend we searched the crashplace from an Lancaster III, the Mid-Upper Gunner was an F/O (156 Sqdn.)
h.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th March 2017, 17:10
Kaczmarek Kaczmarek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Saxoniae
Posts: 433
Kaczmarek is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

The crews of Pathfinder Squadrons was normally very experienced crews. So it is not unusual that all crew members have a rank of officer.

Kaczmarek
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th March 2017, 17:25
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 5,782
Nick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura about
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

Didn't the Canadians commission all their aircrew at some stage? Max Hastings' "Bomber Command" describes this causing some upset with the RAF authorities.
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th March 2017, 19:13
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,680
Graham Boak is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

The RAF had Gunnery Officers from the start of the war: although I don't know for sure I'd expect every bomber squadron to have an officer whose responsibility was the squadron's gunnery. I'd not expect every such officer to have risen from the ranks in the pre-war RAF, but maybe.

Stories from the USAAF's famous low-level raid on Ploesti describe the benefits of having an experienced RAF Gunnery Officer with them, not least as acting as a fire controller.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th March 2017, 19:51
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
Bruce Dennis is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Boak View Post
Stories from the USAAF's famous low-level raid on Ploesti describe the benefits of having an experienced RAF Gunnery Officer with them, not least as acting as a fire controller.
Acting Flight Lieutenant George Charles BARWELL (111243), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
__________________
http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/
RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16th March 2017, 14:05
David Layne David Layne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 55
David Layne is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Gunners with Rank P/O, F/O & F/L

When my father was shot down his mid upper was a Squadron Leader, the Squadrons Gunnery Officer.

64. 23rd September 1943 MANNHEIM (GERMANY)

Take off time from Bourn, 1913. Lancaster JA 708 P. Crew: F/O Fletcher, Sgt. Nelson, S/L Foster, Sgt. Beesley, F/Sgt. Layne, S/L McKinna, Sgt. Page.

In accordance with orders contained in Form B.357, 628 aircraft departed England for this raid on Mannheim; 32 aircraft were lost to include Lancaster JA 708 P. At the time of its loss the aircraft had a total of 103 hours of flying time. Also lost from 97 Squadron were the crew of W/O Stevenson. This crew was briefed to be one of 97 Squadron’s 16 aircraft detailed to attack Mannheim. The crew’s bomb load consisted of 1 x 4,000 lb. bomb, 5 x 1,000 lb. bombs and 4 x 250 lb. markers.

97 Squadron’s Gunnery Officer S/L McKinna and the squadron’s Navigational Officer S/L Foster joined the crew for this operation. McKinna and Foster replaced Dunn and White who were tour expired as would the whole crew have been at the conclusion of this operation. On arrival at the target the crew found clear skies and good visibility.

The crew had settled down on their bombing run when they were picked up by a blue tinged, radar controlled, master searchlight and were immediately coned by an estimated 10 other searchlights. The airmen were committed to their run in with Bomb Aimer Beesley releasing the markers and bombs at 2145 hours. Pilot Fletcher then immediately put the aircraft through the most violent corkscrew descent the crew had ever experienced. Despite his efforts Fletcher could not lose the searchlights, but suddenly all of the searchlights were switched off simultaneously.

Fletcher then proceeded to climb the aircraft in order to regain the altitude lost during the evasive manoeuvres. Two minutes after releasing their bombs they were attacked by a Messerschmitt BF110 night fighter piloted by Unteroffizie Josef Brunner operating out of Venlo in Holland. Brunner who was working in coordination with the searchlight crews had followed the aircraft down in its attempts to evade the searchlights.

With the aircraft on fire Fletcher gave the order to bail out, however this command was not heard by Layne due to the intercom system having been put out of action. One of the bomb aimers duties was to remove the square emergency hatch in the nose section that enabled the crew to leave the aircraft in the case of an in flight emergency. Removing the hatch Sgt. Beesley exited the aircraft followed immediately by Nelson and Fletcher.

Wireless Operator Layne recalled later “ I took off my earphones and went to see if I could help but the back of the aircraft was an inferno.” Layne could see the mid upper gunners slumped body silhouetted against the searchlights in his shattered turret and the same fate had befallen the rear gunner.

Retrieving his parachute from its place of stowage Wally Layne scrambled to the front of the aircraft and found the cockpit empty, he was the only man alive in an aircraft that was in a long dive trailing flames behind it. As he scrambled, in total darkness, to the front of the aircraft Wally Layne managed to secure one clip of his parachute to the D ring on his harness. However the second clip was proving difficult. With his feet dangling in space from the bomb aimers emergency hatch Wally frantically fiddled with the second clip until it suddenly clipped into place.

Throwing himself from the doomed Lancaster Layne exited by the bomb aimers hatch and immediately deployed his parachute. At almost the same moment his parachute opened and deposited him in a small clearing in the forest not far from away from the burning remains of his aircraft. Having sustained no physical damages beyond a jarring of his heels, Wally left his parachute hanging in a tree and prepared for life as an evader.



The above taken from my blog. https://wallyswar.wordpress.com/
__________________
Researching my father Walter Henry Layne, 50 Squadron, 97 Squadron, Stalag Luft VI, Stalag 357, Stalag Luft III.

http://wallyswar.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air war over North Africa Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 13 3rd November 2013 01:34
21 Feb '45 BC attack Wörms andy bird Allied and Soviet Air Forces 6 8th June 2007 23:05
VVS divisions Mike35nj Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 7th August 2006 14:27
Losses of B-17's in RCM role paul peters Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 15th February 2006 21:57
Eastern vs Western Front (was: La-7 vs ???) Christer Bergström Allied and Soviet Air Forces 66 1st March 2005 20:44


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net