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  #21  
Old 31st October 2008, 00:45
CENTURION CENTURION is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Hello All,

Adriano: I confirm that, according to Shore's "Fighters over Tunisia", the name of the wingman of W/C Gleed is SGT J K ROSTANT.
VoyTech: thank you for the clarification.

Regards
Marco
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  #22  
Old 2nd November 2008, 23:18
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Hi Leendert

Being very late to this thread, I have some questions regarding the Spitfire losses this date.
AB502 certain (unit and date fits)
ER116 certain (unit and date fits)
ER858 certain (unit and date fits)
EP702 ??????? All I have on this Spitfire is that it went to Malta passing Gibraltar and was damaged on this date. Why do you link it to Tunisia? Have you any additional data for this?
ER502 ??????? All I have on this Spitfire is that
a) it was used by 601/225 Sqn and SOC 26.4.45 (Halley, Air Britain) or
b) it was sent on vessel Camaratha Leith to Takoradi where it arrived on 14.12.1942. Transferred to the Middle East on 1.1.1943. No units known but lost on 16.4.1943. Same question here, why do you link it to Tunsia?
It seems Halley has made a mistake here and version b is correct...

Cheers
Stig
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  #23  
Old 3rd November 2008, 13:52
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Stig,

Linking EP702 and ER502 to just Tunisia has been optimistic from my part.
Looked for Spitfires lost/damaged on 16-4-43 in N Africa area in the first place to get Adriano on the way.

According spitfires.ukf.net ER502 FTR Middle East without detail, and for EP702 it says damaged by enemy aircraft. I assume for the latter that it was in the N. Africa area, because it had passed Gibraltar earlier.

Regards,

Leendert
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  #24  
Old 3rd November 2008, 15:04
SteveB SteveB is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

The individual record card for each RAF aircraft (Form 78) which was held in the UK does not record allocations to squadrons in North Africa or MTO. Normally the card will record only the date despatched from UK to wherever (Takoradi or Casablanca) and the date that it was confirmed as arriving ie the details in Stig's (b). The card may record other bits of info for example from censuses that were undertaken or the date the a/c was lost or SOC.

The details of sqn allocations for a/c sent to MTO and recorded by Jim Halley in the AB books will have been collected by going through all the sqn ORBs so that is almost certainly where the details "601/225" in Stig's (a)come from.

I would say that it is quite possible that both sets of info at (a) and (b) apply to the same a/c ie it was shipped to Takoradi; it was presumably air ferried to Egypt and then confirmed "on charge Middle East". AB suggests that it was then issued to 601Sqn and at some point transferred to 225Sqn.

Like all clerical systems there is always room for error and board members will be aware of many errors in recording of a/c serials in ORBs.

Steve
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  #25  
Old 3rd November 2008, 18:51
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Thanks Steve

You are absolutely right, I should have checked the whereabouts of 601 Sqn AND 225 as well, since both were sent to NA. I wonder from where the written off date of ER502 is to be found?

Thanks Leendert

Not saying you're wrong, just that our sources don't 100% nail any if these two losses to this combat, just that they occured the same day...

Cheers
Stig
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  #26  
Old 3rd April 2009, 15:23
marcus78 marcus78 is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner View Post
Chris, thanks for the correct name of G/C "Jackie" Darwen. May I ask you if you do have information about his loss on 07th October 1943? ( Acft number and codes, for example? ). He was OC 239 Wing, but I do not know if he was flying a Kittihawk or a Mustang that day.
MARCO: Thanks again for the 111 Squadron inforamation. I do have all 3 JG 53 books by PRIEN back home and can take a careful look to match the losses and claims that day. I will post it here, as soon as I got home ( I am now some 3.000 km away from home ).
VOYTECH: I do not know your name, but thanks for posting a picture of F/L Shand from 145 Squadron. Very kind of yours.
May I ask both of you if the name of SGT J K ROSTANT is the correct name? I tried to find his service number or his complete name but got no joy! Are you sure this is the correct name of W/C Gleed´s wingman on that day?
Yours
Adriano
SGT J K Rostant was my grandfather known as Keith Rostant. And can confirm he was wingman to Gleed. Keith died about 8 years ago in Scotland.
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  #27  
Old 3rd June 2010, 01:38
ryantxr ryantxr is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

I've been doing some research on the Rostant family. I'm pretty sure that JK Rostant's real name was John Keith Rostant. Any official records would probably have used that name.
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  #28  
Old 9th September 2020, 06:33
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner View Post
Chris, thanks for the correct name of G/C "Jackie" Darwen. May I ask you if you do have information about his loss on 07th October 1943? ( Acft number and codes, for example? ). He was OC 239 Wing, but I do not know if he was flying a Kittihawk or a Mustang that day.
MARCO: Thanks again for the 111 Squadron inforamation. I do have all 3 JG 53 books by PRIEN back home and can take a careful look to match the losses and claims that day. I will post it here, as soon as I got home ( I am now some 3.000 km away from home ).
VOYTECH: I do not know your name, but thanks for posting a picture of F/L Shand from 145 Squadron. Very kind of yours.
May I ask both of you if the name of SGT J K ROSTANT is the correct name? I tried to find his service number or his complete name but got no joy! Are you sure this is the correct name of W/C Gleed´s wingman on that day?
Yours
Adriano
Hello,

Re: The identity of W/C J Darwen's Kittyhawk, lost on 7 October, 1943. HMAW4/Shores et al, page 402 has the following:

Thursday, 7 October 1943.

British Casualties.

239 Wg - Kittyhawk II left 1625, shot down by flak in the Palata area; Wg Cdr J. Darwen DSO, DFC and bar, KiA.

260 Sqn - Kittyhawk III FR868 left 1625, shot down by flak in the Palata area(No 2 to Wg Cdr Darwen) Sgt K. R. Trevelyan KiA.

It is known that Kittyhawk III FR868 was Darwen's personal a/c, marked "JD". Seems strange that Sgt Trevelyan was flying Darwen's personal aircraft. Can someone confirm which aircraft W/C Darwen was flying on 7 October, 1943?

Col.
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  #29  
Old 9th September 2020, 23:00
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...298#post130298

I wnt through AB's Kittyhawk serial numbers AK,AL,ET,EV,FL,FR, FS,FT,FX, for 260 Sqn.
Could only find these for October '43.
FL237 - damaged by flak 7/10/43, not repaired.
FR850 - Hit by flak, belly landed - 6/10/43.
FR858 - S/d by flak 7/10/43.

Last edited by Alex Smart; 10th September 2020 at 17:54.
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  #30  
Old 10th September 2020, 02:58
Russell Russell is offline
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Re: 16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

Col

You are probably correct, 260 for October continued their practice of not mentioning serial numbers or even code letters at all for another few months. They don't mention Darwen at all, unlike 112 which lists him when he flew with them, including the details of his aircraft. This leaves the question, which may not be fully answered until the Air 81's are out for the events, of what the other a/c lost was, and who was in what aircraft. I would agree the probability is Darwen was in FR868.

Russ
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