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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #11  
Old 21st October 2018, 16:47
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

It should be noted that Berndt received official credit for a damaged Me 109; Gaines for a destroyed Me 109; and Cox for a destroyed FW 190. These are all in 8VCB(45)/16c lines 11, 12 and 13 respectively. It is unclear to me whether Cox got 1 FW 190 and 3 La 5s, or 1 FW 190 and 2 La 5s.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #12  
Old 21st October 2018, 19:28
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Peter Randall Peter Randall is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

Interesting Frank, but with all of the gun camera film missing or unusable, except McIntosh's, you have to wonder how the VCB were able to distinguish the different claims between German and Russian. I guess that we will never get to the bottom of that, particularly in the light of Rene's comments about the difficulty in distinguishing Russian aircraft.

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  #13  
Old 22nd October 2018, 00:01
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

Thanks Peter (and Frank)

How much is known regarding the German losses that day?

Also, I guess, unless (until?) the Russians hand out full details regarding their losses, including factory construction numbers - bort numbers - and so on, there is not very much to check against....

Cheers
Stig
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  #14  
Old 22nd October 2018, 16:37
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Peter Randall Peter Randall is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

I can't help on that Stig as it's beyond my field of interest. Maybe Frank might know?
Peter
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  #15  
Old 22nd October 2018, 16:52
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

No worries Peter

Both you and Frank has done enough without having to learn Russian as well and try and locate dusty files in some "Moscow" basement.

I would say this is up to our Russian friends to answer.....

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Stig
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  #16  
Old 23rd October 2018, 15:05
BadenBaden BadenBaden is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

Hello,
thanks for the article, pictures and responds. Here is a long thread i.a. about this fight:

https://www.dws.org.pl/viewtopic.php...45cb5&start=75

However it's in Polish.
Regards
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  #17  
Old 24th October 2018, 14:56
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Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
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Re: Info on 359 and 353th Fighter Groups

Peter. This is part of a letter Rene sent me ( I think in 2003) regarding this action; he said the combat film assessor afterwards had a model made to approximate the opposing fighters based on the 359th pilots reports---obviously THEY had only a few seconds to identify who was in front of them.

When I met Bob McCormack and Vernon Judkins they were rather vague about it but I don't think they were too involved.

Certainly there was some confusion as to how far west the Soviet Air Force was operating.
Apparently the 353FG's assailants were La5s rather than Yaks so a quite different outline ( more like 190s).
Regards
Nick

Last edited by Buckeye30; 6th February 2020 at 22:02.
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