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Old 11th May 2012, 17:06
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

For the third year in a row, I have renewed my subscription to Fold 3,obviously to look at MACRs.

In the time I've been using this service, I have become very frustrated with the missingMACRs form the Fold 3 archives. I've written the site coordinators but have generally gotten the run-around.

The last one I looked for that is not available on their database is MACR 3552 B-24H 41-28649 453rd BG 733 BS lost on March 18,1944.

I keep insisting their database is missing files and they say it is 100%
complete.
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Old 11th May 2012, 19:34
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

They may mean that they have 100% of the MACRs that survive in the archives, if not 100% of all the ones ever compiled.
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Old 11th May 2012, 21:09
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Beale View Post
They may mean that they have 100% of the MACRs that survive in the archives, if not 100% of all the ones ever compiled.
Good evening Nick and kaki !

Those "missing" MRCR's do exist and are available. They are mostly in the MACR's number-blocks 15.000 to 16.000 etc. Those reports cover mostly events in Asia in a very late stage of WW 2 or postwar.

In Europe, which came later after the event to report, they were mostly compiled by misunderstandings of the missing a/c and the regular unit errors.

A very good example is the missing of a B-26 (44-67881) on 23. December 1944, which was assigned to 1st (prov) PFF and was shot down by German fighters in my area in Germany.

The MACR of this event is # 15984.

Best wishes !

Horst Weber
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Old 12th May 2012, 01:53
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Well, I'm not even talking about the hign number MACRS
I'm talking about about seemingly normal MACRs such as MACR 3552 for a 453rd BG B-24. I used to get the microfiche copies of MACR and I have copies of some that are not in the Fold3 MACRdatabase. I wrote them and will post here when I hear back.
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Old 15th May 2012, 04:32
Steve_Fossey Steve_Fossey is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

The mission report for the 453rd BG is listed as available. The Mission Report folder will often (at least in for the ones I have looked at, 2nd & 463rd BG spring 1944) have the MACRs for that day.

Last edited by Steve_Fossey; 16th May 2012 at 13:57. Reason: correct error and clarify.
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Old 15th May 2012, 06:19
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Footnote/Fold3 did a very poor job of digitizing the MACRs. I have been told that it was outsourced to India. Whether this was the scanning/digitization, or just the index of names, serials and MACR numbers I do not know.
I found numerous cases where 3 MACRs in a row cannot be located by reference to the MACR number; for example 453 to 455, and 1470 to 1472, and 1520 to 1522. Since in general when NARA put the MACRs on microfiche they put only three MACRs on a fiche (regardless of how many would fit), missing three in a row means that an entire fiche did not get processed. I have complained about this to them, but the missing MACRs never reappear in their collection.

Starting with MACR 3479, and going all the way to 3724 none of the MACRs can be located by report number. I have no idea what they managed to do here.

A major mistake in building the database of images was that they did not use the MACR number as the primary key (to be technical). They used the aircraft serial. The problem with this is that some MACRs do not have an aircraft serial explicitly (although I have found some elsewhere in the MACR images). The other problem is that some aircraft serials have two MACRs associated with them. This happens when the first MACR covers crewmen who bailed out during the flight, but the pilot was able to fly the aircraft back to base. And then the aircraft was lost on a subsequent mission. Both the missing aircraft serial MACRs, and the duplicate aircraft serials violate the rules for building a relational database.

All of the MACRs that exist are held in the original at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. They also have a complete set of the MACR microfiches available to researchers. The original paper copies can only be accessed by researchers if it can be shown that the fiche is unreadable, or has some other defect. Which I have had to do at times.

There are no original MACRs held by USAF Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB. They have only a set of the microfiches, as well as a set of the 16mm microfilms of the index cards prepared from the MACRs. The microfilms are frequently unreadable, and incomplete. They are also available at NARA II.

As far as I am aware MACRs were prepared in the field at the Squadron or Group level, and then sent up the line to the Wing and then Air Force. They were then sent to Washington, where the MACR number was assigned to the report. MACRs are not normally found in the Squadron or Group records, either at NARA II or USAFHRA. There are also numerous cases where MACRs were not prepared in a timely fashion, and only exist because of a family request for more details, when it was found that a MACR had not been prepared. MACRs can also be found in an IDPF, but I do not believe I have ever found a MACR in an IDPF that was not also in the MACR collection at NARA II, and on microfiche.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 15th May 2012, 15:30
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Thanks Frank - very succinct explanation and certainly not forthcoming from Fold3 or Footnote.

Frank - is there another AAF unit (other than the Group) repository for Tower Logs?
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Old 15th May 2012, 19:44
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Bill,
I haven't found any tower records in my time at NARA II. But I haven't spent much time looking at USAAF records there yet. Mostly I am working with USN aviation records, and soon, USMC.

If I see any, I will let you know.

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 15th May 2012, 23:39
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Thanks Frank
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Old 16th May 2012, 00:40
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: FOLD3 and Missing MACRS

Frank,

Thanks for that succinct explanation of the problem with the Fold3/Footnote MACRS.

The question is what can you do? Do you think there is anyway to force them to acknowledge their shortcomings and update/improve as necessary.
When you're the only game in town, its hard to change.

Thanks,

Carlos
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