Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27th March 2020, 22:01
Mr Schmitt Mr Schmitt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 175
Mr Schmitt is on a distinguished road
Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Hi

Anyone know the details of the Messerschmitt crash of Coulsdon Golf Course, also post crash excavations. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27th March 2020, 22:42
Heuser Heuser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Heuser is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Good evening,

Bf 110 C-4, Werknr. 2146(?) „U8+CL“ of 3./ZG 26 on 6th of September 1940.

Uffz. Christoph Kiehn killed, BF Uffz. Egon Neuß POW after aerial combat.

Not sure abot the Werknummer, as 2146 is also reported for a Bf 110 of 2./ZG 2 on 03.09.1940.

Regards,

Heuser




Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27th March 2020, 23:50
ghostwriter's Avatar
ghostwriter ghostwriter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Southwest-Germany
Posts: 241
ghostwriter is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

in different sources you find this number:

Quote:
On the morning of 6th September, 1940, the 3rd Staffel of Zerstoerergeschwader 26 were escorting ErproGr./210 on a bombing raid. Messerschmitt Bf 110C-4, Werk Nr. 2146, Code: U8+CL, was attacked and shot down by Hurricanes, possibly from No.111 squadron. It crashed at Cannons Hill Golf Course, near Coulsdon, at 9.30am. The photograph shows a factory data plate recovered from this aircraft.
source: https://www.kenleyrevival.org/conten...110-data-plate

best tegards
ghostwiter
__________________
I won't let you dig around in my brain,
I won't let you steal my little show!?
dr. koch - "1984"

Last edited by ghostwriter; 28th March 2020 at 20:17. Reason: cleaned up
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28th March 2020, 00:54
John Vasco's Avatar
John Vasco John Vasco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Norwich, originally Liverpool
Posts: 950
John Vasco is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuser View Post
Good evening,

Bf 110 C-4, Werknr. 2146(?) „U8+CL“ of 3./ZG 26 on 6th of September 1940.

Uffz. Christoph Kiehn killed, BF Uffz. Egon Neuß POW after aerial combat.

Not sure abot the Werknummer, as 2146 is also reported for a Bf 110 of 2./ZG 2 on 03.09.1940.

Regards,

Heuser
I'll give my thoughts on this W. Nr. conundrum.

On 6th September, the same day that W. Nr. 2146, U8+CL, was lost, ZG 26 lost another Bf 110 C-4, 3U+CA, of the Geschwaderstab. 3U+CA had the W. Nr. 2145.

Given that aircraft were usually despatched in batches to a particular unit, I think the balance of probabilities lies with U8+CL being 2146, with 3M+BK of 2./ZG 2 having an incorrect W. Nr. sent up the line to the Quartermaster's section.

Furthermore, in Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Volume 3, page 365, information from an intelligence report on Zerstörergeschwader2 is given, which shows all the W. Nr. of I./ZG 2 Bf 110s as at 12th August 1940. 3M+BK is shown as having W. Nr. 2070.

So, I believe U8+CL is W. Nr. 2146 on 6th September, and 3M+BK was W. Nr. 2070 on 3rd September.
__________________
Wir greifen schon an!

Splinter Live at The Cavern, November 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOCksQUKbI

Danke schön, Dank schön ich bin ganz comfortable!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28th March 2020, 11:29
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,994
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Excellent points John

A very good chance you cleared up this mystery for good!!

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28th March 2020, 13:12
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 2,872
Matti Salonen is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

There is also:
1941-01-27, III/ZG 76, Bf 110 C-4, 2070, M8+FN, Kjevik
Flugzeugführer Gefr Matthias
Notlandung auf See infolge Motorbrand. Bruch 100 %.

Matti
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28th March 2020, 14:15
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,994
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Darn Matti

When everything looked so good....there you come and spoil things....

Well John, back to the drawing board, or do you have another ace up your sleeve?

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28th March 2020, 14:21
John Vasco's Avatar
John Vasco John Vasco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Norwich, originally Liverpool
Posts: 950
John Vasco is on a distinguished road
Re: Messerschmitt Crash 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matti Salonen View Post
There is also:
1941-01-27, III/ZG 76, Bf 110 C-4, 2070, M8+FN, Kjevik
Flugzeugführer Gefr Matthias
Notlandung auf See infolge Motorbrand. Bruch 100 %.

Matti
Which throws everything up in the air again.

One might therefore argue that the 3M+BK that was a 100% loss on 3rd September was not W. Nr. 2070.

That at some time between 12th August and 3rd September, 3M+BK, W. Nr. 2070 was damaged to the extent that it went to a repair facility and was then reissued to ZG 76.

That the 3M+BK that was lost on 3rd September had a W. Nr. that was not 2146, but will have have to remain unknown.

I am happy to stand corrected on my previous post.
__________________
Wir greifen schon an!

Splinter Live at The Cavern, November 2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOCksQUKbI

Danke schön, Dank schön ich bin ganz comfortable!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hs 126 crash 12 May 1940 Lucky Luke Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 10th December 2018 14:06
Crash in the sea off Newquay 2 October 1940 Dave Somerset Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 3rd April 2016 21:29
Mystery Crash Reported at 04.30 hrs 15 August 1940 (missing from Boscombe Down) Observer1940 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 21st December 2011 00:12
Luftwaffe crash 15 May 1940 near Brussels, Belgium pointedeflèche Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 3rd September 2005 22:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net