III./ZG26 > EKdo262 > Kdo. Nowotny question.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo gents!

I've found a mistery, when tried to compare facts about those three Gruppen:

According one info, Hptm. Thierfelder went to form EKdo262 in december 1943. But EKdo262 was formed only in april 1944. Okay. In that time III./ZG26 flew Bf110G-2 under command of Obstlt. Johann Kogler. But already in spring several pilots of III./ZG26 were transferred to EKdo262:
Lt. Wegmann (from Stab III./ZG26)
Oblt. Bley (from 9./ZG26)
Lt. Weber (from 8./ZG26)
Fw. Herlitzius (from 8./ZG26)

Then:

Erprobungskommando 262
Kommandeure:
Hptm Werner Thierfelder, 4.44 - 18.7.44
Maj Walter Nowotny, 19.7.44 - 26.9.44

How it is possible, if :

III../ZG26:
Gruppenkommandeure:
Hptm Werner Thierfelder, 2.6.44 - 18.7.44

and

Jagdgeschwader 101
Geschwaderkommodoren:
Maj Walter Nowotny, 1.4.44 - 10.9.44

If III./ZG26 was used to form EKdo262, so it must be disbanded on june 1944. But it is not:

Kommando Nowotny
Formed 26.9.44 in Achmer and Hesepe with:
Stab/Kommando Nowotny from Stab III./ZG26
1./Kommando Nowotny from 9./ZG26
2./Kommando Nowotny from 8./ZG26
3./Kommando Nowotny new

That mean that III./ZG26 was not disbanded to Sept. 44?
7./ZG26 at Fels-am-Wagran (13.5.44 - 12.6.44) and at Seyring (12.6.44 - 20.7.44); (but the same sourse state that 7./ZG26 was disbanded already in june 1944.)
8./ZG26 remained at Leipheim until 18.8.44, and moved to Rechlin-Lärz;
9./ZG26 was based at Schwäbisch-Hall (12.7.44 - 20.9.44), and Erfurt-Bindersleben (20.9.44 - 26.9.44)

But according to Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, III./ZG26, III./ZG26 was going to be equipped with Me262 already in May 1944, but didnt got even 1 Me262 untill its disbandment.

1. Is following correct: "EKdo262 was formed in apr.1944, then in june1944 was merged with III./ZG26"?

On 23 may, Hitler meets Goring, Milch, Speer, Sauer and Petersen.
during a discussion about the Me-262, Hitler suddenly realizes that it is produced only in the original fighter version, not in "his" bomber version. Hitler is furious. He commands to shift all production to a bomber version. He forbids to even refer to the aircraft as an interceptor or even as a fighter-bomber, and the military responsibilities related to the Me-262 are transferred from the fighter command to the bomber command. This means that jet fighter pilot training is stopped. Instead, bomber pilots will train to fly the Me-262, as a bomber. The decision also further delays production.

On May, 29th, Goering to whom Hitler has assigned a private responsibility for re-equipment Me 262 in a bomber, has called the following conference. This time representatives of production workers and chiefs of research departments have been invited. There were present, among others, Gunther Korten, the chief of Joint Staff Luftwaffe, Adolf Galland, the inspector of assault aircraft of Bodenshatts, willi Messerschmitt, Edgar Petersen, Otto Berens from Rechlin Centre and Hptm.Werner Thierfelder from Ekdo 262. Milch was not invited - Goering well knew that at the previous meeting that has lost Hitler's arrangement.
Goering has begun with the statement that in avoidance further any misunderstanding for program Me 262 the commander of bombing aircraft will answer. All flight personnel which yet has not taken place a full training course on fighter variant, must return to origin units, and all already constructed planes are transferred in bombing connections.

So, on late may, Me262 fighter programm closed. EKdo262 was a test unit of Me262 as a fighter. So, it could be disbanded, all pilots returning to original units (including original III./ZG26 pilots). And seems, that only after that III./ZG26 was decided to convert on Me262 (but was operational already in july, and got air victoryes as fighter unit in aug.1944).

2. Who was Kommandeur of EKdo262 (or damn III./ZG26) between death of Hptm. Thierfelder on 18.7.44 and appearence of Maj. Nowotny on 26.9.44?

If somebody gets mad reading all above - my brain exploded too, be sure

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Evgeny

This is what I have been able to uncover on this question. According to German Jet Aces of World War 2 by Hugh Morgan and John Weal, EKdo 262 was formed on 9 December 1943 under the command of Hauptmann Thierfelder. The first three pilots arrived in January 1944 and in May 1944 a dozen additional pilots, six each from 8. and 9./ZG 26, arrived. Following the 25 May decree, those pilots who had not completed their conversion training returned to their original units but Thierfelder along with eight other pilots remained with the unit. Following the death of Theirfelder, Hauptmann Horst Geyer (18 victories) was appointed Gruppenkommandeur of EKdo 262. In mid-August 1944 the unit was divided into two Staffeln under the commands of Oberleutnant Müller and Oberleutnant Bley and which were built around cadres provided by 8. and 9./ZG 26. On 26 September these operational components of EKdo 262 were redesignated Kdo Nowotny and placed under the command of Major Nowotny while the Gruppenstab under the command of Geyer was redesignated III./EJG 2.

Horrido!

Leo

[Evgeny Velichko]

Thank You Leo! Now it is clear

So, in june 44:

Stab/EKdo262 from Stab III./ZG26
1./EKdo262 from 9./ZG26
2./EKdo262 from 8./ZG26
7./ZG26 disbanded and absorbed by JG76

In September 44:

Stab/EKdo262 absorbed by III./EJG 2 (Me262 training unit)

Stab/Kommando Nowotny new
1./Kommando Nowotny from 1./EKdo262
2./Kommando Nowotny from 2./EKdo262
3./Kommando Nowotny new

Right?

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Evgeny

My understanding from reading the book is that 8. and 9./ZG 26 were absorbed into EKdo 262 in August 1944. Kdo Nowotny was established with only two Staffeln although a third was planned under the command of Oberleutnant Eder but never formed. Eder took command of one of the two existing Staffels after Oberleutnant Bley was killed in a take-off accident on 28 October and later became Gruppenkommandeur following the death on 8 November of Major Nowotny.

Horrido!

Leo

[Evgeny Velichko]

Oblt. Bley was StaKa 9./ZG26, and became 2./EKdo262.
Oblt. Mueller was StaKa 8./ZG26 and became StaKa 1./EKdo262. (furthert fate? KiA, TFD to III./EJG2???)

But there is a mess of info, each dont mach with other:

On 26 September, Erprobungskommando 262 was disbanded to become Kommando Nowotny. Bley was appointed Staffelkapitän of 2./Kdo Nowotny. On 28 October 1944, Bley was killed in Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. 110 388) when he lifted off too late on take-off and struck a steam pile driver. His aircraft crashed and exploded.

In September Hauptmann Eder was transfered to Erprobungskommando 262 (later Kommando Nowotny) where he was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./Kdo Nowotny.

On 25 September 1944, Hptm. Alfred "Fred" Teumer was placed in command of 2./Kdo Nowotny flying the Me 262 jet fighter. Teumer was killed on 4 October 1944, when he crashed his Me 262 A-1a (W.Nr. 170 044) at Hesepe airfield following the loss of an engine.

On 25 September 1944 (???), Oberleutnant Schall was transferred to Kdo Nowotny, commanded by Major Walter Nowotny (258 victories, RK-Br) operating the new Me 262 jet fighter. He was assigned command of 2. Staffel.

Note:
When unit was redesignated from EKdo262 to Kdo Nowotny, 1 and 2 Stafflen exchanged redesignations:
1./Kommando Nowotny from 9./ZG26 (2./EKdo262)
2./Kommando Nowotny from 8./ZG26 (1./EKdo262)

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Evgeny

According to the book Major Nowotny quickly replaced Oberleutnant Müller with Oberleutnant Teumer due to the fact that the former had not claimed any victories with the Me 262. I have no idea what was Müller's next role but he later served with JV 44 and survived the war. However, Teumer was killed in a flight accident on 4 October and thus Leutnant Schall replaced him. Oberleutnant Bley was succeeded following his death on 28 October by Oberleutnant Eder. Regarding the activities of Eder in September 1944 and October 1944 we now are discussing an aspect that has bedeviled me for a long time. We know that he served as Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 26 from 4 September in succession to Hauptmann Lang until 8 October when he was replaced by Major Hackl. However, we also know that he was serving with EKdo 262 (and later Kdo Nowotny) during the same time and even recorded victories with these units. So it appears that although he was Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 26 he simultaneously was attached to and was receiving jet training and claiming victories with EKdo 262 and later Kdo Nowotny!

Horrido!

Leo

[Nick Beale]

A lot of deciphered German material refers to Kdo. Nowotny as III./JG 6.