Victory count of Detlev Lüth in Prien's book

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

In the book "Jagdfliegerverbände Teil 7", it is shown that this ace, then an Ofw with 4./JG 1, claimed three RAF bombers over the North Sea as his kills 27 to 29.

His 26 former kills are listed in the series in the BoB and Barbarossa books.

In 1943, this ace claimed 8 kills, and they are listed in the book "Jagdfliegerverbände Teil 10/II", but they are numered 29 to 36. The first kill of the year on 4 February 1943 is again numbered 29.

Is it a typo, or was one of the former claims discounted by recent research ?

Thanks in advance

Laurent

[Johannes]

Hi Laurent

Herr Prien's claims are usually arrived at through the Micro Films, and failing that other sources. Usually the Micro Films are typed out neatly for each Gruppe upto usually a date of around 26th July 1942, then daily Micro Films exist individually for West and East....these list all claims by all units on that day for that front. However I./Jg3's earlier Micro Films have not yet come to light(perhaps never to be found), and am I right in thinking that I./Jg3 became II./Jg1? anyway 4./Jg1's daily Micro Films entries do not start until 12th August 1943(for wahtever reason, JG'5 are the same) and end on 5th December 1944. This leaves abschüße bords, other documents and personnal log-books to cover the period unto 12th August 1943 unless as is sometimes the case a claim appears on the Micro Films as an A.S.M or V.N.E-A.S.M claim.

With Lüth only last four of his claims appear on the micro Films:-

4th February 1943 B-17 NW Texel 1245 hrs
12th August 1943 B-17 Hermebeiech 0816 hrs
14th October 1943 B-17 1340 hrs 7200 metres
3rd November 1943 B-17 1320 hrs 6800 metres.

These as far as I can tell are claims numbers 23-26!

As far as his earlier claims are concerned theses are(first ten as a Fw with 1./Jg3, next nine as an Ofw with 1./Jg3, and next four as an Ofw with 4./Jg1.

7th October 1940 Spitfire Thames Estuary Nr.1
30th October 1940 Hurricane London area Nr.2
22nd June 1941 I-16 Nr.3
23rd June 1941 SB-2 Nr.4
26th June 1941 Il-4 Nr.5
3rd July 1941 I-16 Nr.6
8th July 1941 2 X Il-4 Nr.7-8
16th July 1941 SB-2 Nr.9
31st July 1941 I-153 Nr.10
9th August 1941 Il-4 0835 hrs Nr.11
11th august 1941 SB-2 Nr.12
12th August 1941 Jak-7 1209 hrs Nr.13
14th August 1941 I-16 SE Kanew 1300 hrs Nr.14
15th August 1941 MiG-1 10km W Grebenka 0615 hrs Nr.15
15th August 1941 I-16 N Kanew 1755 hrs Nr.16
15th August 1941 I-153 N Kanew 1800 hrs Nr.17
28th August 1941 I-16 W Ostijew Nr.18
30th August 1941 Il-2 W Mozaijsk 0935 hrs Nr.19
7th February 1942 3 X Hampden Terschelling area 1502 hrs 1509 hrs & 1604 hrs Nr.20-22
9th May 1942 Spitfire u/c

Personally I am suspicious of any claim without a time, moreover even claims documented in log-books need not neccesarily have been comfirmed, all those except his last four are slightly questionable. His last three listed were definately his last three confirmations, any other dates you have for this period are false, or unconfirmed.

Regards

Johannes