Do 17 losses on the 12 September 1940

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Good evening Gentlemen.

Am checking a claim for a Do 17 damaged by 602 Squadron (Red Section) on the 12th September 1940.

File AIR 27/2074/17 do confirm that RED Section of 602 Squadron took-off from West Hampnett at 15:25hs and that it attacked a Do 17 over Beachy Head and was pursuing it through broken cloud to Boulogne, where it was left with one engine stopped. Time registered: 16:30hs.

The three pilots involved in this action were: P/O Osgood Villiers Hanbury, P/O Archibald “Pat” Lyall and F/O Christopher John Mount. They all landed back between 16:45hs and 17:10hs.

The Battle of Britain sites and pages do inform that the Germans lost 7 aircraft and 7 damaged.

I found on the BAMA Lists, only one Do 17P lost that day, from 1(F)/121 and very far away, at Boblingen, and not on the Channel....

KG 51 lost some machines (2 damaged and 1 total loss - 100%), and the register do inform "Jägerbeschuss".

There are two Bf 110 losses..one from III/ZG 76 at Cambrai and one from 9./ZG 26 far away...

My questions regarding this day are:

Is there any other Do 17 recorded lost or damaged on the 12th September 1940?

Could the 602 Squadron pilots have claimed instead of a Do 17, the 1(F)/122 Junkers 88 A-1 that went missing circa Cap Gris Nez on that same day?

Adriano

[Andy Mitchell]

Adriano,

Regarding the 1(F)/122 Junkers 88 A-1 that went missing circa Cap Gris Nez on 12 Sep 1940 - Mason in "Battle over Britain" attributes that loss to action by Hurricanes of 605 Sqdn. (Current, Wright and Cooper-Slipper). He places the loss as 8 miles south-east of Cap Gris Nez and times it at 14.40 hrs.

The F540 (AIR 27/2088/17) states that "Red" Section, on patrol near Hastings, encountered a Do 215 which they continuously attacked and brought down 8 miles SE of Cap Gris Nez. There is nothing in the F541 which just states, against these pilots/aircraft, "Operational patrol and combat".

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Andy

Your answer prompted me to acquire this book. My deepest gratitude for that. I sent you a message and shall be in contact soon.

My deepest GRATITUDE for your help...605 Squadron was the sole that I had not searched the F540 and F541! Am now passing my eyes through them....

Thank you again

Adriano

[Chris Goss]

Battle over Britain when first published in the 1960s was the book to have but Battle of Britain Then & Now, soon to be republished, was far more accurate

[Andy Mitchell]

Adriano,

Full crew names are as follows (from a spreadsheet provided by Matti Salonen):

Bibas, Gerhard (B) Fw
Kaltenbach, Karl (Bw) Fw
Krautwurst, Johannes (F) Lt
Plinge, Anton (Bf) Obgfr

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Chris I managed to find both books down here. At least with the shipping fees soaring to several pounds from the UK to Brazil, in some cases more expensive than the book itself, and with at least 1,6 Kg (only the book), I am lucky to have both on the shelves. But I do agree with you...both are wonderful (one is coming home yet).

Andy, thanks a lot for their full names. I obtained an image of Fw. Kalterbach as it is spelled on the back of the photo. But I may have read it wrongly...since it is old German.

There is another member of 1.(F)/122 that is not mentioned on your Aufkl.Gr.122 web page (and most resourceful site for researchers), that is Fw. Rudolf Esche. I do have a document that was sent during his training days to his father. Shall get that data and pass onto you very soon, as I have emailed.

Adriano

[Chris Goss]

I have no Do 17s being lost or damaged in combat on this date