Photos Germania B

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay there is a photo of a Germania B at :


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Germany-WWI...4AAOSwA9tenKKJ


and:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Germany-WWI...kAAOSwM0tenKKI



Regards,


Clint

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a German Aircraft partial serial 198 at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-PK-Flie...MAAOSwspZfFB9B


Tentatively, I'm tempted to identify this as Germania B.I LF.198,although a view of more of the aircraft would be useful to put it mildly.However the 198 being followed by a punkt rather than a slash appears like a Navy serial.



The Freiwilliger Marine Flieger Korps was based at Johannisthal. Diagonally to the left of the post mark there is handwriting in a thicker darker pencil. Would anyone care to attempt to decipher what is written? This might or might not help.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Nice try Clint
Personally I think we can drop the Rathjen/Germania B-type theory.

If you look at the stamp, and of course believe that it is genuine, it is dated 29 March 1916. According to Grosz the three LF aircraft were accepted by the German Navy that same month.

All this would thus suggest that the young man had his close up photo taken, immediately rushes off to have it developed, then again rushes off to some post card maker to have it turned into something he can send home. While not impossible I guess, it is a bit far fetched for me to buy.

I have of course no idea what we are looking at. The top wing looks extremely curved which was never a trade mark of Rathjen/Germania, well, at least not the photos I have seen.

Are we really looking at a dot behind the digits? Can't remember I have seen any dot as such before. Couldn't it be something with the construction as well?

Finally the angle of the aircraft's "sit" is very straight, suggesting it is a floatplane and not a land plane. Unfortunately in my list the Marine Bestellnummer 198 is unknown. Grosz gives no clue if this is a cancelled aircraft or simply never assigned. Only one aircraft is known in between 121 - 200.

Sorry I can't do any better....

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


I definitely will not be insisting that it is a Germania B.I and one possibility I admit I hadn't considered was the possibility of a seaplane.Having said that you're in saying that 198 was not assigned. Again, not really on topic but there was more than one landplane serial between 120 and 200, though that doesn't distract from your point really.



I don't believe I've seen the P.M Grosz work you're referencing, but Michael Düsing in Germania Flugzeugwerke and its Aircraft doesn't give a date, so that would have been a matter I didn't take in to consideration. Happy to accept what you say about Grosz though.As an aside though weren't there four Rathjen LF machines? And Michael Düsing states that Naval land based flight training centres other than Johannistal were not established until 1916 without frustratingly giving a date for delivery of the Rathjen machines



What I did look at were other B type aircraft with serial number 198. Its not B.198/14 as that was an Aviatik P14.I don't have anything definite for B.198/15 but the preceding and following numbers are Albatros aircraft and I don't believe we're looking at an Albatros. This leaves the possibility of B198/13 again I don't have anything, so a possibility.


With regard to the dot following the serial I think if you look at either of the Ago S.66 or S.67 the serial number is like that shown on 198.


What we can see of the wing to me shows the cut out in the centre and is compatible with the aircraft shown being a Germania, but, metaphorically speaking the fact that the machine is definitely a Germania is not a hill I'd chose to die on.Hoefully a fuller photo of '198' appears in due course.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sorry Clint

Wasn't specific enough. When talking about Marine Bestellnummer 198 I was talking about their seaplane orders and not their land planes. If you look at that you will find only a Curtiss aircraft (No 187) while all other numbers between 121 - 200 were either unassigned or unknown.

Unfortunately I don't have the Germania book you mention. Must have missed that one. Thus I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to passages in that book. Is it still available?

I believe I sent you the LF list by Grosz, didn't I? In that list I can only find three Rathjen/Germania B-types (LF 197-199), all accepted between 19-26 March 1916. From where does Düsing get his fourth?
I know the Grosz list has a few gaps (type unknown) such as LF 175, 177 and 209, so not impossible it could be one of those.
I have actually located a photo of LF.198 and I must say both the colour and size of the serial number fits the photo on sale.
The caption actually says five B-types saw naval service. Very confusing since only three serials are known....

I think you can forget this being an Army aircraft. Their slash would have been visible, don't you think?

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


Fear not, I understood what you meant. There was also a Lohner flying boat 161 and at one time I had an image of 141, unfortunately lost migrating from the last PC to this one. I'm not confident it will turn up, but if it soes so I'll let you have a copy.


The Germania book is an Aeronaut produced book so should I imagine still be availbable.


The missing Germania landplanes are LF.136 & LF 136. Aeronaut's list in Development of German Warplanes in WWI has 199 as an Albatros B.III.


I bet the photo in the Düsing is the same one you've seen does it have LVG LF 110 in it too?


I really don't think it's an army plane, the other alternative is a machine operated by a civilian run flying school I guess.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by musec04

Hi Stig,

The missing Germania landplanes are LF.136 & LF 137. Aeronaut's list in Development of German Warplanes in WWI has 199 as an Albatros B.III.

I bet the photo in the Düsing is the same one you've seen does it have LVG LF 110 in it too?

I really don't think it's an army plane, the other alternative is a machine operated by a civilian run flying school I guess.

Regards,
Clint

Good Lord, Clint

How could I miss the serials 136 and 137?
I checked the list twice.... Time to retire, me thinks....
Oh well, it explains Grosz statement of 5 delivered. Always some kind of relief....

Yes it is the same photo you have in Düsing's book. I will look for the latter from Aeronaut. Thanks for the tip BTW!

Actually I am sort of leaning towards that this is LF 198 after all. It could easily have been angled upwards for some reason. If you look at the photo again in Düsing you will see what I mean. Perhaps "our man" in the photo had access to the aircraft some time before its acceptance tests?
I must confess I am less inclined to think it is a "civil" operated aircraft.

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi,


I'm clearly having related problems with numbers myself. Surely the Lohner I mentioned as serial 161 is in fact the 116.


I'm still intrigued to see whether it is four or five Naval Rathjen/ermania B.I machines. Hopefully at some stage a photo of 199 emerges whether a Germania or an Albatros.


I'm still inclined to view the aircraft in the initial link as the LF.198 but was just, rather late in the day, adding an element of caution.


Regards,


Clint