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Old 26th October 2019, 17:50
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DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Hello,

I am just typing up my notes on this DEFE3 file and would like some assistance with the interpretation of a couple of words in this very hard to read page.

The text that I have so far is

"Film of a FW 190 of II./SG 4 reported on 20/11/43, according information of 12/12/43 on appearance of an apparently new defensive weapon. According to observation three cylindrical ?? ??? (containers?) which were fired off the attacking aircraft. A container (?) came in contact with the aircraft.
There was a violent shock, aircraft remained capable of flying. On landing scratches were discovered on propeller and wings apparently caused by a twisted wire. Wing was badly knocked about, a brake cable on the undercarriage was broken and one undercarriage fairing torn open."



The issue is the text corresponding to the ?? and ??? above. If there are any other corrections, please advise as well.

If anyone can help I would be very grateful.

Many thanks

Last edited by Andy Mitchell; 26th October 2019 at 17:53. Reason: additional text added
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Old 27th October 2019, 02:14
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Hello Andy,

To my eye it looks like:

"PILOT OF [a] FW £ FW ONE NINE NOUGHT OF SECOND GRUPPE SUGAR FOUR REPORTED ON TWENTIETH NOVEMBER, ACCORDING INFORMATION OF TWELFTH ON APPEARANCE OF AN APPARENTLY NEW DEFENSIVE WEAPON. ACCORDING TO OBSERVATION THREE CYLINDRICAL OBJECTS CONCERNING WHICH WERE FIRED UP IN FRONT OF THE ATTACKING AIRCRAFT. A CONTAINER CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE AIRCRAFT, THERE WAS A VIOLENT SHOCK, AIRCRAFT REMAINED CAPABLE OF FLYING. ON LANDING SCRATCHES WERE DISCOVERED ON PROPELLER AND WINGS --- APPARENTLY CAUSED BY A TWISTED WIRE. WING WAS BADLY KNOCKED ABOUT. A BRAKE CABLE OF THE UNDERCARRIAGE WAS BROKEN AND ONE UNDERCARRIAGE FAIRING TORN OPEN."

best regards,

Jim
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:47
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Jim,

That looks a lot better, many thanks for your help.

DEFE3/12 is causing me some issues as the quality of the scan is not the best.
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Old 27th October 2019, 19:23
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

I suggest taking the image and running it through a program that can lighten or resolve the characters. This reminds me of what the typing could look like when run on a ditto machine. I would offer to help but do not have this type of program.
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Old 27th October 2019, 21:09
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
I suggest taking the image and running it through a program that can lighten or resolve the characters. This reminds me of what the typing could look like when run on a ditto machine. I would offer to help but do not have this type of program.
I made my own screengrab from the TNA site and tried it with Photoshop but my rudimentary skills made very little difference. I think the problem is that the original was black type on off-white paper (I first encountered DEFE 3 before it was microfilmed) and was sometimes either faint or a bad carbon copy so there isn't much detail to recover. Somebody else may have better luck though.

The HW 5 series equivalent message (CX/MSS/ reference at the top left) would solve the problem, if anyone has it.
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Old 27th October 2019, 21:25
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Ed,

Thanks for your suggestion.
Yes, I tried that with PaintShop Pro and achieved very little.
This particular DEFE3 file, No 12, is very bad in places.
On previous files I have been able to process the page in some way to extract the text.


Nick,

Thanks for trying.

Yes, it looks like I'll have to bite the bullet some time in the future and visit Kew. Probably won't be till next year though, as there are things going on that preclude visits this year.

This page looked like a 6th gen carbon copy and some of the other pages are just as bad. Occasionally I come across a page that is very clear - but its usually a Naval or Army item that I'm not interested in.

Have an old copy of Photoshop that just about runs on Win 10 so will give that a try as well.

However, I think Jim has nailed it with his interpretation.

Many thanks to you all for your help and suggestions.
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Old 27th October 2019, 21:41
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Re: DEFE3/12 help needed with text in VL1796

Ha!

Nick and Ed.

Better results when I just used Photoshop (v7 2002!) than Paintshop Pro 2018. Even so the results are not stunning but better.

Looks like I better revert to Photoshop for this.

Thanks guys.

Last edited by Andy Mitchell; 28th October 2019 at 22:32. Reason: typo replaced Painshop with Paintshop
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Old 28th October 2019, 01:21
rof120 rof120 is offline
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"NEW" device?

Possibly this defensive device was not quite so new. I remember reading the book "The Hardest Day", by ... (?) NO: THE AUTHOR WAS ALFRED PRICE, and at least on August 18, 1940, on an RAF airfield vertically fired rockets drawing steel cables behind them were fired when a German AC was approaching (not too high, though) and it worked when, IIRC, some Do 17s attacked this airfield at low level. I can't remember if some German AC were destroyed or only damaged. This book is well-known and its title has become a standard phrase.

It seems that this system was not abandoned or not entirely.

Last edited by rof120; 28th October 2019 at 15:47.
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