The best allied fighter pilots have been the soviets

[VoyTech]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

USSR (and, implicitely, the Soviet pilots) was a member of the 'Allies'.

You mean, after their (forced) about-face of June 1941?

A more interesting question though is can the Finns be also considered as part of the 'Allies' after their about-face of Sept. 1944?

Finns can certainly be considered as part of the Allies in 1939-1940, long before the USSR changed sides.

[Frank Olynyk]

William Frederick Fiedler (5 victories) was the only non-Russian ace on the P-39 that I am aware of. He flew in the 347th FG based on Guadalcanal in the 1942-43 period.

Frank.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by kurlannaiskos

perhaps what was meant was that I N Kozhedub had 62 victories and Major Bong (USAAF) had 'only' 40 and if memory serves correctly the top RAF ace had 'only' 38.
(I know someone will correct me if I am wrong)
making the top Soviet ace 1/3 more 'productive' than the USAAF or RAF

Based on number of awards, number of awards per combat sortie, number of awards per combat enounter?

four of those top soviet aces scored some of their kills in the P-39 proving that it was not an 'Iron Dog' it was simply not being used correctly by the RAF and USAAF.
how many USAAF aces scored 5 or more kills in the P-39?

One. Fiedler SWP in Guadalcanal campaign timeframe

As to used 'incorrectly' you want to imagine the VVS fighting the Zero at low altitude in horizontal engagements?

Or USAAF attempt to provide high altitude target escort with the P-39 against the 109 variants?

In the ETO and PTO it was an Iron Dog

[mayfair35]

Gentlemen:
If you will check how the Russians modified "their" P-39s, you will be aware that they were different from ours. I posted a reply previously about what our pilots who ran the first shuttle run to Russia saw and what they said about the Russian P-39s but some experts poo pooed the information ... so take your pick. Either we used them incorrectly or we were unwilling to modify them as the Russians did at Piryatin. The Russians were confident they could handle a 109 in a
P-39 up to about 12,000 feet.
Cordially, Art Fiedler

[kurlannaiskos]

WOW!
I guess we can consider this hair to be split mighty fine.

the RAF and USAAF were looking for high-altitude (20,000+) long-range
strategic interceptors (before it ever got that name) for deep penetration missions.
the P-39 is certainly not capable of that so it 'was used incorrectly' in the ETO and PTO.
the VVS used it for what it could do : low to medium altitude tactical fighter in support of the Red Army.
so in this case it 'was used correctly'

[Franek Grabowski]

Art
I remember about your account but I cannot verify it against all the Cobras used by Soviets. Personally, I believe those modifications concerned some aircraft of Air Defence units. Anyway, the key to Soviet success with the type is that the aircraft was flown in intended role of a fighter. Airacobra outperformed most of Soviet types, and for a certain period it was the fastest aircraft on its operational altitude. Altitude performance was on par with such aircraft like Spitfire V or Me 109F, but better than that of Yaks and LaGGs, most common at the time.
One thing about comparisons, we should not compare apples and oranges. Number of sorties, number of combats, flighttime, operational goals, actual results of combats, all those factors should contribute in such statistics. Also, considering that many of victories were shared ones, perhaps it would be wiser to discuss the problem on a unit level, rather than individual pilots.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by mayfair35

Gentlemen:
If you will check how the Russians modified "their" P-39s, you will be aware that they were different from ours. I posted a reply previously about what our pilots who ran the first shuttle run to Russia saw and what they said about the Russian P-39s but some experts poo pooed the information ... so take your pick. Either we used them incorrectly or we were unwilling to modify them as the Russians did at Piryatin. The Russians were confident they could handle a 109 in a
P-39 up to about 12,000 feet.
Cordially, Art Fiedler

Hello Art,

generally, the soviet strengthened the plane tail due it's structural weakness(high acceleration could cause the deformation). Additionally some regiments removed the wing Browning 12,7 for the better climbing and turning performance.
The Soviet AF used for ground troops support and the the soviet pilots must use the planes that soviet engineers and soviet goverment could deliver(inclusive lead-lease). They could not wait for the better models due thousands of soviet soldier died every single day on the ground. Therefore they must depelop the methods and the tactics for bypassing of plane shortcomings. One of this method was the numerically superiority: if you have 10:1 figther and capable leading pilots, it is not more relevant, what the plane you have on the hand. Another was the appropriate using of plane type e.g. Yaks for escort of Il-2 and P-39 for high cover or air patrol over the front.

From the actual point of view, the P-39 was not a good plane with the perfect radio equipment :-). The flying charachteristic of the La-5 and Yaks was better and this confirm also the germans: Rall, Bakhorn; Schuck and IIRC wing man from Bakhorn. The cooling liquid for the motor was easily combustible etc. etc...

Best regards

[Juha]

Igor
it seems that opinions on P-39 were mixed, were they users' or opponents'. Lipfert seemed to think that P-39 was a good fighter, almost as good as Bf 109 and at least in the summer 1943 probably/presumably/maybe (depending how one translate the Finnish word kai) the best fighter used by Russians. At least according the Finnish translation of his memories.

Juha

[Ruy Horta]

Since thread was drifting I decided to make an arbitrary split to keep some focus. Also changed the title of the original to better reflect the content. Art Fiedler's comments are very interesting and make me curious into what these changes were that made this bird more effective.

A factory fresh and fully equipped P-39 must have been impressive to pilots used to Spartan wartime produced early to mid war Soviets Soviet types. However the Soviets did catch up by the latter half in all areas that mattered to them.

IIRC American deliveries were mainly factory fresh, British deliveries tended to have been used (sometimes extensively). That must have made an impact on how these a/c were perceived.

Regardless there seems to be a general consensus that American aircraft were regarded as well produced, equipped and even relatively luxurious. From Buccaneer to B-29.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=12858

[Franek Grabowski]

Ruy, search for posts of Art on this forum, it was posted a few months ago I believe.