Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.

[edNorth]

Do I get it right, LBB forum is also closed to researchers, except for a members fee?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Oberst

Actually, if you look.. most German people get banned. Why? becouse they have a different insight and a Language misunderstanding I think.

Oh God, here we go …

First this has rapidly ceased to be about the Ju 88 H-1.

Second, I have no problem with anyone, German or otherwise, saying something "controversial" — all they need to do is produce the evidence to back it up. That's not much to ask, is it?

Third, this thread shows all the signs of going nowhere except increasing acrimony, so cool it everyone.

[edNorth]

Attached is possibly (do not know for shure) the offending (?) item (info) I am supposed to have not submitted on the Ju 88 H-1 loss thread at LEMB forum from earlier this autumn. This comment was what really made me sorry and sad.

This photo can be found in book "Junkers Ju 388" by Christoph Vernaleken and Martin Handig (Aviatic Verlag 2003) and as anybody can see has been in print and availiable for eight years. This book is written in German, but I belive a version of this can be found in English.

I have no further Ju 88 H-1 info "hidden away". I do have lots of stuff to research better, but I whish I had photo and drawings of the (one) H-2 Zerstörer. I do have a "possible hint" as to where it was possbly used, but am far from certain I am right on that.

Perhaps I will be shot now. Can I have one last whish?

[Pilot]

With deep respect to all of you who are in this thread as well all of the rest members of this forum I would like to give my view on this subject. This sentences catch my eye:

This was posted in a thread on a model - that had been made by a member of the LEMB forum - and in return was accused of withholding my info from a previous thread (about the Ju 88 H-1 losses, in another thread), from many weeks or months ago

I am not sure do you know me, not important at all, but in couple of last years I have published many of my profiles in various printed publications, I did not count how many but I guess that number is some around thousand of color profiles. Some numbers are also posted on various Interenet sites and forums. So what is my opinion about use and share of info.

Whether we like or not but Interenet is designated for free share of knowledge and education. If you are member of any forum or web site you must be first at all read site statement and rules and agree with them. Be sure that one of statement is that 'all content on this site is property of this site'. So all what you put there is yours but also of this site. In which way? Members and authorities of this site can move, share and manipulate with this content in the regard to their permissions and all on the site.

Where is problem? Problem could be principal, as you said, somebody did not point on the original post. This is not extreme violation but for sure it is maybe handicap for all those who could find more in original source of document.

Most important point is your signature, watermark or any other method which claim document as your property. If the watermark is there, there is not bitter problem. But there is also other way of sharing.

One way of sharing is on other sites where you are not member at all. Method of sharing could be remote linking where is original file taken from the place where you put it and displayed on another place. Other way is more complex when your file is stored on another server, not stored by you and displayed on other site. In this way you have rights to react but again, if your signature is preserved on file, there is maybe no need for that. Think about that your file is used for informations and education.

I run few web sites and from time to time I jump into control panel and analyze traffic. In many cases I found that many files are shared on other sites, remote or direct store on their servers. All known cases shown that files are used to promote discussion, provide info and make benefit to particular membership. No issue have been found that any of them was used in any violent way (like stored for sale).

I will specially point few cases where is my art works displayed on E-bay and used for promotion of the owner of page to sell its products. This is also not problem for me, I am glad that my material can help to highlight owners own products and make income. It is hard economical times so why not to allow somebody to make more money and feed his family.

There is only one case where is my art used in not proper way, watermark is removed and used without it. But this site is not worth mention so I did not react at all.

So it is only my opinion and experience. I do not expect that anybody will agree with me. To conclude I will give few pints about use of somebody authors work:

- permission of author
- included full data of source with full name and direct link
- few words with thanks to author for his kind permission

But if this miss but your metadata is still on file... maybe no need to be angree.

It is just me...

[Clint Mitchell]

Hi Srecko, I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. It has nothing to do with copyright of images or ownership of information.

A guy came on to LEMB asking for help on how to accurately build a model of a Ju88H-1. We had lots of discussions and helpful posts over a period of time on how this particular machine might have looked and the guy was really appreciative and happy with the info. He then goes off and builds his model. He is dead chuffed with his creation, he makes a special topic showing us all of the photos of the model even gets his son to help him upload the photos because of his limited computer knowledge. All is well, with a nice happy outcome. Then Ed finally jumps onto the topic to tell the poor guy that his model is completely wrong and that he should have known that some obscure German language book on the Ju388 that Ed has known about all along, had all the answers he would have needed. Why on earth Ed could not have posted this information earlier for this guy but waited until the model was finished to then shoot it down in a condescending and arrogant manner (Classic Ed North language) is beyond me and totally uncalled for. This incident is far from the first where Ed has been asked very nicely and warned to tone down the way he publicly tries to humiliate members. It was out of order and just not needed. Ed I think you know the instances that could be brought up if you want to continue this public outburst. Just drop it, it's getting boring and we wish you well with your research in the future.

[Nick Beale]

We will now stop refighting battles that have ended elsewhere. Any attempt to explain what happened, however well-intentioned, is guaranteed to upset someone and we'll be into a spiral of increasingly angry posts.

Been there, done that, it made no one any happier.

*THIS THREAD IS CLOSED*