JG 3 Bf109 G6 (20466) Pilot Identity?

[stephen f. polyak]

On 19 August 1943, a Bf109 G6 Trop. (W.Nr. 20466) of 3./JG.3 was shot down and crashed near the border of Dongen / Tilburg, NL. The pilot is believed to have bailed out. Is the identity of this man known?

r/Steve

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Steve

Not at home to check the books on the unit by Dr. Jochen Prien, but this is the entry as it is listed in the GenQu 6 Abt loss records. Note that the date is given as 18.08.1943 in this list:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=110445

Regards,
Andreas

[Artur PK]

Prien and Stemmer don't mention the pilot. Here is a note from their book ("Jagdgeschwader 3 "Udet"..., vol. I, Stab nad I./JG 3..., p. 414):

19.09.1943. 3./JG 3; pilot NN; cause: aerial combat, crashed Loon-op-Zand, 100%; Bf 109G-6, W.Nr 20466.

And:

"[...] 3 Staffel lost one Messerschmitt shot down in air combat near Loon-op-Zand on the Dutch coast. The aircraft's pilot was able to parachute to safety". (ibidem, p. 244-245)

Regards,
Artur

[Andreas Brekken]

OK, guys.

Let's get this one right with regards to date:

Stephen, you say 19.08.1943, Artur say 19.09.1943 with reference to Prien/Stemmer, and GenQu 6 Abt original documents say 18.08.1943.

I./J.G.3 has not reported losses for 19.08.1943 nor for 19.09.1943, while there is a record for this aircraft for a loss on 18.08.1943.

I tend to believe the latter is correct, and that both Stephen and Artur has made a typo. Which is it?

Regards,
Andreas

[Quercus]

Gentleman
Belief me the date of 19 august 1943 is correct! The loss of the 3./JG.3 Bf109G-6 Wnr. 20466, who came from Mönchen gladbach , crashed on the border of Dongen / Tilburg and NOT Loon op Zand. The 109 is recovered in November 2005, by the Dutch Air Force Recovery Service, The engine and some small parts are now in the Traditiekamer (Museum) of the Airbase Gilze- Rijen.
But who was the pilot? If you need more info on this one, let me know.

Jan Jolie /Quercus

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

If the date was 19.08 and not 18.08 (which is entirely possible, the loss date has just not been corrected in the GenQu 6 Abt loss list as is usual), what is the documentation for this? Please post this information here, as this must then probably be information from locals in the area of the crash as there are no Namentliche Verlustemeldung (no personnel injuries), or an entry from unit records or other parts of the Wehrmacht.

Regards,
Andreas

[Quercus]

Andreas,
My source in this one is the: Tagebuch nr.6 Des Kommando, Flughafenbereich 6/III - Gilze-Rijen- 19 August 1943, an some local police reports.
I hoop there is somewhere a Tagebuch from Monchenglädblach, that will give the answer in the pilots name!

Regards,

Jan

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello all,

Yes, Jan is right -

The text of KTB Gilze Rijen is:
"19.08.1943 20.00 Absturz durch Feindbeschuß einer Bf 109, gelbe 8, der JG 3 München Gladbach, bei Loon op Zand. Bruchschaden 99%. Kein Personalverlust."

Alas I do not know the name of the pilot either ----

Regards
Rob

[Andreas Brekken]

OK, and thanks.

Have updated the loss record accordingly:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=110445

And my above entry should have read "if there are no" and not "as there are no" etc....

Regards,
Andreas

[Co de Swart]

I just asked Mr. Müller, the new Trad. Geschwaderleiter JG 3 if he had any info who piloted this Me. 109-aircraft, taking off from MG on the 19th,
There's no such record found up till today but he's still ordening the archives he took over from the late Emil Daniel.
So, maybe in the (near) future.
Co de Swart, NL