B-24H 42-52585

[GrafWolf]

Hello gentlemen!

On 19.07.1944 the B-24 H 42-52585 "Section Eight" crashed
near Amtzell. This aircraft was damaged by Flak over Munich.
The whole crew bailed out, and the aircraft crashed into a
farmhouse at Stahrenberg. This are the coordinations:
47°43´45.40``N----9°45`21.12``O
Four inhabitants were killed.
This is a crewlist i have found:
Pilot Orville J. Heim
Copilot Carl W. Lundberg
Navigator E. Burke Huber
Bomb. William P. Sheridan
Eng. Floyd E. Gregory
Radio Jack E. Walters
Gunner James L. Cady
Gunner Edward M. Reagan
Gunner Richard H. Trimingham
Gunner Weyland B. Feely
All POW. Is this correct?
I also found a different information concerning the loss of
Richard H. Trimingham-24.08.44, B-24H 41-29424, "Sans Souci" POW
Was it usual to change the crew?
Is there any additional information concerning the loss of 42-52585
available?
Thank you in advance!

Herzliche Grüsse aus Oberschwaben,

Wolfgang

[Revi16]

Your first sentence has a typo, should read 42-52585 not 858.
http://www.b24bestweb.com/section8-v2.htm

B-24H 42-52585, 465th Bomb Group, 783rd Bomb Sqdn, MACR 6751
http://www.783rd.org/index.html

Fold3 has the 37 page MACR available, but you'll need to join or start a trial membership.
https://www.fold3.com/search/#query=42-52585&t=95

Original Crews
http://www.783rd.org/History/OriginalFrames.html

This link shows who went MIA on July 19, 1944 and August 24, 1944. Trimingham went missing on Aug. 24, 1944.
http://www.783rd.org/History/CasualtiesFrames.html


It was not uncommon for an aircrew member to substitute on different aircraft during their tour of duty, due to mechanical issues, training, sickness, wounds or days off.

Example - Aircraft "A" gets hit by flak and cannot participate in the next days mission, even though all 10 aircrew members are scheduled to fly.
Aircraft "B" had one of its gunners injured from flak and cannot fly. A gunner from aircraft "A" would substitute on aircraft "B" for the next days mission.

[Rottler]

Hello Wolfgang,

in German reports on shot-down American aircraft is listed:

19 Jul 44 1100-1200 Liberator 783rd Sqd 465th Gp 55th Wing bei Ravensburg, Abschuss-Nr./Casualty-No. ME 1654.

19 Jul 44 1230 Liberator Amtzell, 18 km N Lindau, Abschuss-Nr. KU 2607.

Regards
Leo

[GrafWolf]

Thank you, Revi16!
Sorry!

There is no match with the crew Heim on 19.07.1944.
Lost crews that day were Bonds,Thomas W. and Greenwood,Thomas W.
A complete other crew on "Section Eight" that day?
Unfortunately I can´t open the paper on fold3.
Which crew were lost that day near Amtzell?

Thank you in advance!

Wolfgang

[Rottler]

Hello Wolfgang,

on July 19, 1944 the 42-52585 was lost with the Greenwood-crew.

Regards
Leo

[GrafWolf]

Thank you, Leo!

Pfalz oder Bodensee?

Gruss Wolfgang

[Rottler]

Pfalz!

Gruss Leo

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello, Mr Wolfgang

Do you know the names of the four people killed on the ground ? It is usually far easier to identify in such cases the aircrew than the people killed on the ground, but they are part of this tragic story too.

Best regards

[Horst Weber]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Hello, Mr Wolfgang

Do you know the names of the four people killed on the ground ? It is usually far easier to identify in such cases the aircrew than the people killed on the ground, but they are part of this tragic story too.

Best regards

Good day Laurent !

It's easy to find out the names of the People killed on the ground. You just need a look into the local administrations registry office' (Standesamt) book (here: Sterbebuch) for that day.

But you must know the local administration responsibility for the time when it happened, since in the 1970's nearly all local administrations became larger by centralizing.

If you know, which current local adminstration holds the "Sterbebuch" today, they will help you. In my experience, those books are very accurate.

Best wishes !

Horst Weber

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hi Horst,

Yes, you can find them, but you often need local knowledge/connexions/accesses for identifying civilian casualties, while for many countries now (USA, UK, Australia, France, USSR at least) you have online databases. That was I was wanting to say.