JGr. 200 (Pictorial)

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

... IT is hoped that, if information from your site do arises there, they will be recognized and, off course, your authorization obtained beforehand.
....

Of course ULTRA reports belong to Nick Beale !
And no one - especially a French - is able to consult them !

Funny forum sometimes ...

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Dear Jean-Fran4ois,

Further to your project, there is a Critical Past colour film available showing a burnt out JGr. 200 machine found at Valence. It could be Mtt built Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 166221 but this remains yet to be verified. You will find stills here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7664621771218/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7664621771218/

and the film here: http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...tinel-aircraft

Location courtesy of Jacques Strübi, Bf 109 from Anton to Toni group, facebook.com, 12 January 2018.
W.Nr. and unit courtesy of Nick Beale, thanks to Technical Report No. 19 of the MAAF Field Intelligence Unit (from National Archives file AIR51/281).

All the best for your upcoming publication.

Sincerely
Marc

[Xerumbe]

We thank you for your encouragement and the help you give us.

I will be clear on our approach to JGr. 200 compared to Nick Beale's work. It is obvious that this work is huge. The fact that it is available for reading on the web does not mean that it is a work ready to be looted.

We read passionately about this work. It helped us understand the action of this "unique" fighter unit in front of the allied breakup in 1944. This enabled us to look for witnesses and archives in the concerned places. On this subject you will see in the book that Nick's only mistake was a wrong transcript of the name of a pilot. This led to some funny adventures, eventually leading to the complete story of the air combat that caused the pilot's death ... and the discovery of the wreck of the plane he was flying.
In short, the JGr. 200 is just one of the 63 chapters in our book. We report his action with a degree of precision less than Nick's website. We study this unit as the French units fighting in the last days of the "Battle of France" in 1940: a lot of courage, little happiness, a lot of losses. We describe the perception of allies about this unity and a form of respect that results from it in some mission reports.

We approached the Geschwader Bongart in the same way, once again after reading Nick's work. But the angle of the story of the chapter concerning this unity is that of the French populations and the resistant ones. We can write this after reading the local archives that we were able to consult and witnesses or descendants of witnesses that we were able to find.

We are not professional or experienced historians like many of you. We tell the "local" history of the 1900 days of war of which only a dozen take place on the ground, for others it is in the sky that it happens. Of course we are talking about planes, units and military operations, but first and foremost the people who are in these planes or "below" them interest to us. In this sense you will not find monographs of materials or units as has been brilliantly done in the past. This is a series of thematic summaries about a geographical area that has not yet been the subject of a book in French.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Xerumbe

On this subject you will see in the book that Nick's only mistake was a wrong transcript of the name of a pilot.

If it's not giving away too much, tell me who it is and I'll try and find my source for the name (the Germans were very bad at spelling names correctly).

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

Dear Jean-Fran4ois,

Further to your project, there is a Critical Past colour film available showing a burnt out JGr. 200 machine found at Valence. It could be Mtt built Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 166221 but this remains yet to be verified. ...

"166221" was Hartmann's machine for a while and destroyed on 11 of October 1944 in Schwakena area.

WNr. 162211 matches better as described in TRN°19 of 16.09.1944.
Cheers,
Franck.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

"166221" was Hartmann's machine for a while and destroyed on 11 of October 1944 in Schwakena area.

WNr. 162211 matches better as described in TRN°19 of 16.09.1944.
Cheers,
Franck.

My mistake, Franck: W.Nr. 162 221 was effectively meant.

Cheers
Marc

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

"166221" was Hartmann's machine for a while and destroyed on 11 of October 1944 in Schwakena area.

WNr. 162211 matches better as described in TRN°19 of 16.09.1944.
Cheers,
Franck.

The report says:

Me 109 G-6 W.Nr. from ∆ plate 162221.
Engine - DB 605 A-1. No. 01101084 from nameplate recovered.
Fuselage markings not available. Spinner white. Black spiral.
2 x MG 131 over engine. 1 MK 108 through boss.
Bracker for FuGe identified.
Remainder ashes and molten material.

[gilles collaveri]

great great work, JF./Xerumbe

Your website would deserve an English version, many many readers of the present website would be interested.

Congrats and keep the good work.

GC

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

The report says:

Me 109 G-6 W.Nr. from ∆ plate 162221.
Engine - DB 605 A-1. No. 01101084 from nameplate recovered.
Fuselage markings not available. Spinner white. Black spiral.
2 x MG 131 over engine. 1 MK 108 through boss.
Bracker for FuGe identified.
Remainder ashes and molten material.

Yes,
I have the report ...

[Alfred.MONZAT]

There's a "local" book on air operation during 1944 in the same region :



I have it alongside the two previous volumes (dealings with allied bombings of Montluçon and Clermont-Ferrand) of this trilogy. This is a small book and it probably deals with a smaller area but there's a good insight in Geschwader Bongart operations (of which one aircraft is still on display at the Musée de la Résistance at Limoges). Looking forward to your book Mr. Kauffmann.