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Old 1st December 2020, 10:58
Dötlingen 1961 Dötlingen 1961 is offline
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Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Hello everyone!
Our parish chronicle records two incidents where allied planes attacked the place. I would like to clarify these:
1. In mid-April 1944 there was an attack by two Lightning P-38s on Dötlingen
2. On April 8, 1945, the station in Dötlingen was first attacked by two fighter planes. Since there were no trains here, the fighter planes flew to the Brettorf train station (also in the Dötlingen municipality), where several wagons and trains were parked. These were successfully fought.
My question about this: Is it still possible to find the units and which pilots were used today?
Thank you for your assistance!
Karsten
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  #2  
Old 1st December 2020, 16:23
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

If you have the time and patience and very good eyesight. This gun camera film runs for 1 hour and 8 minutes. ;-)

This link shows gun camera footage of the 2nd Tactical Airforce. Once you open the link go to the red "Description" tag and click on "Show More". That opens a list of all the short clips that can be viewed in the film box. (I believe they are shown in order listed) there are some 98 clips for 8/4/1945 (April 8, 1945). I think all the 200+ clips are for April 1945. There is a chance the April 8 attack on Brettorf is there. From your description it is not clear whether guns were fired at Dotlingen as you say there were not any trains. Unfortunately none of the descriptions are very helpful as to exact locations and most of the film clips have deteriorated badly, but we might get lucky. Many of the attacks are on motor vehicles moving on roads which can be identified. Attacks on trains can also often be identified, even on these deteriorated clips.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060025441


The first 8/4/1945 attack shown, (by Prudhomme) starts at 11:37. The first 9/4/1945 attack by Tortusen starts at 44:13.


Do you know the time of day the attacks took place? That might help to eliminate many of the clips on April 8th.


Note: The IWM have identified these next 8 clips on April 8 as attacks on trains, 7 of them are planes from 322 squadron and one is a plane from 127 squadron, so we can check the squadron reports also.

The 8 films clips that are identified as attacking trains.

21:57 Combat Film No 8894. Flying Officer James of 127 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1700, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, vehicle and train (?).

Combat Film No 8902. Flight Sergeant Valicenburg of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1500, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

22:57 and

24:16 Combat Film No 8905. Flight Lieutenant Wetters of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1830, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

24:39 Combat Film No 8906. Flight Sergeant van Helden of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1830, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

23:33 & 24:51 Combat Film No 8907. Warrant Officer Quinn of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

25:06 Combat Film No 8908. Flight Lieutenant Arts of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1900, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

25:26 Combat Film No 8910. Captain Aanjesen of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1600, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target, train.

26:47 Combat Film No 8916. Second Lieutenant Kleppa of 322 Squadron on 8/4/1945 at 1720, flying Supermarine Spitfire. Target: ground target (train ?).



UPDATE: I checked the squadron reports for the 322 and 127 squadron. 127 squadron does not mention a train attack. 322 Squadron attacked several trains in the Oldenburg area. They report on the location of the attacks using the grid system we discussed in your other post. We know that the train station at Brettorf should have co-ordinates of about rW478860 or rW4886 if we use abbreviated coordinates. None of the coordinates given in the 322 squadron reports for the locations of their attacks are close to Brettorf. Now it is true that fighter pilots often report the wrong coordinates in these types of attacks, often many miles from the actual locations but none of the coordinates they report seem anywhere close.

Last edited by RSwank; 2nd December 2020 at 04:29.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 05:00
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

I started looking at other squadrons that appeared to attack trains as seen on the video. It looks like 175 squadron did attack a train. They give the location as W4780 which is much closer than we have seen so far, so.... a possibility.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 12:39
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Just a little feeling that Capt Aanjesen and 2nd Lt Kleppa were with No. 332 (Norwegian) Squadron and not with No. 322 (Dutch) Squadron.
Perhaps the ORB of No. 332 Squadron gives further info of their mission that day?

Regards,
Leendert
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Old 2nd December 2020, 13:12
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Leendert is correct

From Cato Guhnfeldt's Spitfire Saga Vol VII:
On April 8th 332 Sq sent 12 Spitfires on a mission to Area W (north west Germany).
Capt Ola Gert Aanjesen flew PL185 AH-A as Red leader when he took off with three others at 14.30H (he was in fact the Squadron Leader)

2/Lt Inggard Kleppa flew NH551 AH-I as Yellow 3 when he took off also with three others at 14.45H

Four later aircraft took off at 15.10H (one force landed immediately after take off)

The target was called DD331 and seems to have been a specific train busting mission.
Total claim for those 11 aircraft that went on the mission was one locomotive destroyed + three damaged. One bus and one MET destroyed + one Staff car and one MET damaged. Five-six wagons strafed.

Looking for specific place names in his narrative, the following places are mentioned
Harbour area of Bremerhaven (seems to be an initial area)
Shot up at Rodenkirchen, 2/Lt Egil Hagen bailed out
(Aanjesen wrote in his log book Hagen bailed out north of Zwischenahner Lake)
Daily Intelligence Summary said: 2/Lt Hagen was attacking a car some 15 miles north of Oldenburg when he was hit by flak.

Nothing specific regarding Dötlingen though....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 5th December 2020, 00:44
Dötlingen 1961 Dötlingen 1961 is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Hello,
Dötlingen and Brettorf are located south of Oldenburg. Were there no missions there that day?

Greeting
Karsten
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Old 5th December 2020, 00:45
Dötlingen 1961 Dötlingen 1961 is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Hello,
and which unit could have been used with the Lightning P-38 in mid-April?
Greeting
Karsten
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Old 5th December 2020, 03:45
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

Here is a start on possible groups.

P-38 Groups in England by April 1944.
20th FG, 55th FG, 364th FG, 474th FG

The 20th FG does have a website with mission reports: http://www.20thfightergroup.com/
The 474th FG has a face book page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/179885945417082/
Not sure about the other fighter groups, but maybe someone can find something.

P-38 Groups starting in May 1944
370th FG, 367th FG, 474th FG

Last edited by RSwank; 5th December 2020 at 13:57.
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  #9  
Old 22nd March 2021, 23:15
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Eagle0025 Eagle0025 is offline
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Re: Fighter planes over Dötlingen

The only P-38s operating in Northern Europe at that time (April 1945) would have been from the 474th FG. The 428th FS of the 474th FG did attack a marshalling yard on 8 April 1945, but it was in Sollstedt, Germany which was nowhere near Dötlingen.
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