Help please in identifying german aircraft "Werk-Nr." plate

[gerbil]

Hi, as a new member I am looking for some assistance in identifying a german aircraft shotdown in the Western Desert sometime between December 1941 and July 1943 by a British Eighth Army Light Anti Aircraft Battery (113th Battery 27th LAA Regt RA).

I have the planes "Werk-Nr." on it's small aluminium triangular plate which was recovered from the plane by the battery commander.

The number on the plate is 8703. The edges of the plate bear sand coloured traces of paint but other than that I have no information on the aircraft.

I would very much appreciate any advice as to whether it is possible to research the type of aircraft the plate came from or any of the circumstances of its loss to the Luftwaffe.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Gerbil

[G.R.Morrison]

Your plate may belong to Bf 109F-4/Trop WNr.8703 of 6./JG 27, MIA 1.September 1942 after aerial combat while being flown by Ofw. Herbert Krenz, 15 km south of El-Hamman.

HTH, GRM

[gerbil]

Hey that was quick GRM! Thank you!

When you say "May belong, how could I verify the fact? (I am amazed that you could know those details so precisely and so quickly - I am impressed!)

The officer in whose posesion the plate was before it came to me was the battery commander of a light anti aircraft battery as explained (Equipped with Bofors 40mm guns) He has written on a label attached to the plate "Shot down by 113LAA Battery in desert - Picture in photo album" (there is obviously, or once was a photo album with a picture of the destroyed plane which I don't have)

It sounds from the info you have that it may have been shot down during aerial combat - does this mean the battery may have claimed it's downing incorrectly do you think - or is it that your source is not certain about the fate of the aircraft. just that it was missing in action?
Can we put history right here?

Where would I be able to follow that up, if at all possible?

I am gob smacked if what you say is right

and Thanks agin for the quick response

Gerbil

[stephen f. polyak]

Many (if not all) Luftwaffe aircraft types - the Bf 109 for sure - were fitted with a triangle-shaped plate that listed the airframe werk. nr. and, sometimes, the aircraft main type (e.g., Bf/Me 109). On the 109 this plate was fitted outside of the fuselage in the vicinity of the tail wheel/horizontal stabilizer; thus, perhaps the source of the traces of tan paint on this example.

The plate's purpose was to to allow aircraft identification after a serious crash assuming worst damage (impact, fire) would be well forward and the tail section would break free, intact. My only “surprise” is that it’s made of aluminum. All that I have seen (and those I have) are made of rather thick steel to further increase the likelihood of survival. Three rivets attached the plate to the aircraft.

Is it possible to see a photo?

[stephen f. polyak]

Bf109 WN.781188

Ju88 WN. 750929

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?vgnyvd2tzzw

[G.R.Morrison]

This was a Ju 88C-6 of IV/NJG 3; lost 13.Dec. 1943 in aerial combat near Bliedersdorf / Unterelbe, the crew parachuted. The Bordfunker, Fw. Heinz Mehler was WIA.

As to the Bf 109G (WNr.781188), we have others in this series, but not this one.

HTH, GRM

[stephen f. polyak]

Thank you very much George.

The Bf 109 G-14 plate (I was told) came from a postwar crash site recovery in Germany. I also obtained the engine (DB 605) main ID plate.

[gerbil]

Stephen,

I have some photos but not sure how you attach them on this forum. I have to enter the uRL of the photo and not sure how I get this. The plate is definitely made of an an alloy and is only a couple of inches across..

Thanks for the information as to where it may have been fitted on the aircraft. I have taken a photo showing the paint colour on the edges. It does have three rivets, which you will see when I work out how to insert a photo!

George, thanks again for the information on the "posible "pilot", I have searched his name and see he is listed in the JG 27 site. Could you help me in telling me where the details of his going missing are recorded if at all possible. Is it certain that this plate could only have come from that aircraft?

I have a military map of El Hamman (1:250,000 of El Daba) from The officers papers that came with the aircraft id plate and I see that about 12 miles south of El Hamman is a British "Landing Ground" marked "LG No.172". Could it be that Ofw Herbert Krenz was attacking this airfield when he was shot down? (I would assume that that is the sort of location that a Light Anti Aircraft Battery such as 113th Battery would be stationed - and of course the sort of place Ofw Krenz would want to attack!)

My next step will be to try to access the War Diaries of the 113th Battery for that date if possible to see if there is any mention in them of the aircraft being shot down on 1.09.42. The trouble is the records are kept about 250miles from me at Kew!

Any further information you may be able to give me as to where to search for information on the subject, especially any records of Herbert Krenz's presumed fate, would be gratefully received.

Thanks again for the help you have provided with this (You will have gathered I am not an expert in the field - I actually collect military campaign maps which is how I came into possession of the Werk Nr plate, with a collection of maps and papers of the Western Desert.)

Peter
(Gerbil)

[gerbil]

[gerbil]

Hi all,

Here is the plate face on - will try and post back and side next

Peter