Late war Bf 109 pictures source

[ouidjat]

Hi Marc,

One of his last two eBay listing ...
No offense Ed I just didn't want to put the same comment in two different threads.

Nevertheless, if the whole serie is amazing, it's nothing more than a Bf109G used as full scale model. No K undercarriage, no K radiator ... A Bf 109 K-0? I doubt. An installation trial for DB 605 D, yes, with some other new devices too; specially in August 1943.
A given WNr. should have been more satisfying.

Cheers, Franck.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Looks like the "32" digits on the fuselage might be the last two ones from the original W.Nr. of this G-6. Interestingly, the type of streamlined engine bulges to be seen closely match the solution retained from late 1944 by IAR Brasov for their newly assembled Bf 109's

Thanks for your precisions, Franck!
Marc

[Nick Beale]

Aren't these the same pictures that appeared in the JaPo book "Messerschmitt Bf 109K" (pages 2-5)?

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Nick,

You're correct: most of the pictures are published in Janda and Poruba 1997, p. 2-12. They date probably from September 1943; WNF was building by then this mock-up for sending it to for presentation to the employees of E-Stelle Rechlin. The prototype is known to have been at Rechlin by 10 October 1943.

Source: Janda and Poruba 1997, Messerschmitt Bf 109K, JaPo, p. 77.

[ouidjat]

[quote=ouidjat;154776]Hi Marc,

An installation trial for DB 605 D, yes, with some other new devices too; specially in August 1943.
quote]

Hi Guys,

Did I write this?
Sorry...
Whatever, I would like to know how authors from both cited books did get the info it was some Bf 109 K mock-up?
The more I look for the pictures, the more I look - with the few I have - for production batches, the more I tend to think it's a Bf109G-4 used for WNF experiments for Bf 109 G-6 own production; 19093 to 20800.
That some features were used in later Bf109k production, why not.
As Marc wrote, cowling is closer to IAR production than Bf 109 K ones.

Cheers, Franck.

[Mermet]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

That? Effectively looks like a dump in background;1946? Thank U

Hi,

Your photo shows a Bf 109 G-10 from Erla (look at the square streamlining between engine and fuselage. The engine is a DB 605 D (letter D on top) and R6 was PKS 12 for the Bf 109 G-10 (and K-4) only. From Prien and Rodeicke, underwing MG 151-equipped Bf 109 were simply "Gunboats"...

JCM

[RolandF]

First photographs appear in "Wernfried Haberfellner/Walter Schroeder: Wiener Neustädter Flugzeugwerke - Entstehung, Aufbau und Niedergang eines Flugzeugwerkes", 3.Auflage 1999, p. 116, 117 and 124 with the caption "Entwicklungbüro Messerschmitt: Mustereinbauten"
No mention of any K-Variant.
WNF used to paint the last digits of the WNr on the fuselage sides. The 2nd, small, rectangle on the fuselage might be a work sheet protected by a transparent plastic foil with leather frame. Can be seen also on other production photos.
The tail unit was produced seperately by WNF in different production hangars and were already prepainted. As there are no wings attached it seems to be a fuselage unit taken directly from the production lines to test several new features.

Regards

Fran

[the_ivan]

[quote=ouidjat;154802]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Hi Marc,

An installation trial for DB 605 D, yes, with some other new devices too; specially in August 1943.
quote]

Hi Guys,

Did I write this?
Sorry...
Whatever, I would like to know how authors from both cited books did get the info it was some Bf 109 K mock-up?
The more I look for the pictures, the more I look - with the few I have - for production batches, the more I tend to think it's a Bf109G-4 used for WNF experiments for Bf 109 G-6 own production; 19093 to 20800.
That some features were used in later Bf109k production, why not.
As Marc wrote, cowling is closer to IAR production than Bf 109 K ones.

Cheers, Franck.

Photos clearly show it has a DB 605 A, but with a refined cowling for MG 131 bumps similar to the one tested by Mtt AG in W.Nr. 16476 on April 43.

The cockpit seems clearly a mock-up: GM-1 equipment, pressure valves for pressurization, electrical panel wooden mock-up similar to the one adopted in K-series, MK 108, etc.

Since WNF was tasked with development o 109 series, and the first planned variants were to be equipped with DB 605 A in pressurized and unpressurized form (K-2 and K-1), and E-Stelle inspected a "109K" in WNF, the identification of these photos as K prototype/mock-up seems a case of 1+1...

[ouidjat]

Thanks Ivan and Fran,

So I wasn't that wrong concerning "mock-up name" and It could be a DB 605 D (or AS) without big supercharger, but a prototype engine ...
I received full comments home. Let me translate it... Unless the author wants to put them himself!!

Regards, Franck.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Mermet

Hi,

Your photo shows a Bf 109 G-10 from Erla (look at the square streamlining between engine and fuselage. The engine is a DB 605 D (letter D on top) and R6 was PKS 12 for the Bf 109 G-10 (and K-4) only. From Prien and Rodeicke, underwing MG 151-equipped Bf 109 were simply "Gunboats"...

JCM

I agree 100% with your comment JCM. I even wrote it in that thread, another post ... Or must be as comment in Marc-André Flickr photostream . Good to remind it whatever, thank you.

Regards, Franck.