1939: a stunning Bf 109 E-3 flown by... St.G 7 !

[Marc-André Haldimann]

I tend to agree with you harrison987: as Jochen said, the whole emblem and adjacent area seem to have been wiped clean, and there are some water smudges on the left top of the emblem. There is a fair chance this pic is a genuine one.

Cheers
Marc

[F19Gladiator]

I agree with harrison987 in that this is a staged photo. Looks like one of many propaganda photos taken before or in the beginning of WW2. If so it should be possible to find in archives. I've started looking in some older Bf109 publications as these have a hight content of archive photos but no luck yet. I still have most of my Bf109 books boxed up why the search is limited so far. I doubt the photo is genuine but it remains to be proven. Sure looks like a copy of copy quality. The zig-zag border at the top of the emblem has a blueish tone which doesn't fit with well the b/w photo.
Let's see if we can find the original!
BR
Göran

[Andreas Brekken]

Originally Posted by Falcon

Marc, it don't must be an E-3. You can see the hatch for the MG 17 access on the wing. In combination with the early canopy I think an E-1 is more possible in my opinion.

The picture don't looks like a Photoshop manipulation. There are no typical artefacts around the emblem... very clean photo.

Btw, the Stab/St.G. 77 got Bf 109's from 31.3.41 to 6.41... source:
http://www.ww2.dk/air/attack/stg77.htm

Hi, guys!

I believe Michael Holm (or maybe a Luftwaffe clerk) made an error when the list of aircraft in Stab/SG 77 was written up.

In the unit strength returns there are no trace of Bf 109s - the only foreign birds being Bf 110s. The old ticker skipped a beat when a yellow square appeared in the strength report for 6./77 for the reporting date of June 7th 1941 - this indicates an aircraft ready for operations but of a model not assigned to the unit - sadly it is marked as being a Bf 110.

The unit had the following Soll for the period:

Stab St.G. 77:

3 Ju 87 B/R
6 Bf 110

I./St.G. 77:

3 + 27 + 9 Ju 87 B/R in Stab (3), Staffeln (27 + 9)

II./St.G. 77:

3 + 27 + 9 Ju 87 B/R in Stab (3), Staffeln (27 + 9)

III./St.G. 77:

3 + 27 + 9 Ju 87 B/R in Stab (3), Staffeln (27 + 9)

It is a fact that during this period the Ergänzungsgruppe do have a few Bf 109s, and it is not totally impossible that an instructor with a past in the II./St.G.77 decided to paint this emblem on the aircraft.

I find it unlikely that the aircraft was really operated by the 6./St.G.77, but it would be a find if it was the case!

Regards,
Andreas B

[Bf 110]

Hello Franck.

Here is the link to the ebay auction: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Originales-Fo...#ht_958wt_1147.

Best regards
Bf 110

[F19Gladiator]

Looking at the eBay photo again I see that the left side of the shield is slightly overlapping the vertical panel line which is intersecting the lower curve of the shield just before it becomes vertical. Look also at the upper part of the panel line and emblem. There is a small overlap of the panel line but no sign of a panel line through the emblem. In case it was painted over the panel line it ought to be visible even if it was close to the emblem border. To me the emblem looks like a "add on" also when looking at the photo at arm's lenght. If I'm proven wrong - so much more fun as the photo would be very unusal if so

[Larry Hickey]

Göran,

That slight overlap over the vertical panel line is close to a clincher for me, that this is a composite done with Photoshop. No artist would do that; they would use the edge of the panel as the line-up point for the side of the artwork. Unless more photos come to light that definitively prove that this image is real, I'm concluding that it is bogus.

[ouidjat]

At last ... here we are!
And, as I wrote, you can compare the fairing geometry on Karman with the one on that picture, for example:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaff...item58aeea6396

Enjoy it. Regards, Franck.

[harrison987]

I still disagree...

This is a staged WW2 photo...with the focal point being the emblem. As such, if the line showed up on the original, it certainly would have been touched up or removed, to make the emblem look nicer.

We are not speaking about a candid photo here, or something from a private estate. This is a specific propaganda photo...

If someone is going to falsely ADD an emblem, with all the correct shading and lighting...they can easily add one tiny line to represent the panel. That is an obvious detail, and something that certainly never would have been missed.

It is nearly impossible to match angles and lighting...so going through all that work to falsify an emblem, only to leave off one obvious line does not make sense.

I work with photoshop every day...and there is no way I would miss a detail like that.

It is not a matter of someone adding the logo and forgetting the line...it is the matter of the logo already being there, and someone REMOVING the line, so the emblem looks good.

This is an original wartime staged propaganda photo...with the focal point being the emblem...as such anything taking away from the emblem was removed.

[Marius]

Hptm. Graf von Schönborn-Wiesentheid flew in Poland 1939 a Messerschmitt Bf 109 escorting missions of his II./StG 77.
Hope this helps.

Regards,

[Falcon]

Marius, this helps. Thanks! Are photos from his plane known? What is the source of your information, please?