Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

[Bernard]

Good morning to all.

On the 22nd of may 1941, P/O D.B.Ogilvie and Sgt E. Malczewski , No.601 Squadron flew a rhubarb operation to St. Omer area, claiming 1 Ju52 probable and 1 Bf109 destroyed:

AIR 50/165.p 220.P/O OGILVIE.Date: 22nd May 1941.Flight: " A ". Squadron: No. 601.Number of enemy aircraft: Three.Type of enemy aircraft: Me.109' s ( Two ) Ju.52 ( One ). Time attack was delivered: 1210 hours.Place attack was delivered: Over Forêt de Aperlecques. ( France ).Height of enemy: 300 feet.Enemy casualties: One Me.109 destroyed. One Ju.52 probable ( the latter shared with P/O MALCZWESKI. ( Poilish ).Our casualties: Nil.( r ) GENERAL REPORT:-I was Red One and attacked a Ju.52, firing a half-second burst at 200 yards from quarter head-on. The center air-screw stopped dead. I re-attacked from below starboard quarter seeing large panelbreak away - or possibly aileron. On this second attack I fired for 2/3 seconds with 12 guns. Noreturn fire came from the Ju.52. This E/A was later attacked by Red Two who caused the port engine to slow up and emit smoke. I claim half a probable in the Ju.52 wich was last seen at 250feet loosing height gradually. Half a mile behind the Ju.52 we met two Me.109' s and I shot into cloud and dived out head-on onto the foremost Me.109 firing at it from 200 ffet and closing to 50.The cockpit cover flew off and the E/A hurtled to earth and blew up. The burning wreckage was seen by red Two.One Me.109 destroyed.One Ju.52 probably destroyed ( shared with P/O Malczewski ) ( Polish ).Signed. OGILVIE.Pilot Officer.

AIR 50/165.p 197.P/O MALCZEWSKI. ( POLISH ).Date: 22nd May 1941.Flight: " A ". Squadron: No. 601.Number of enemy aircraft: Three.Type of enemy aircraft: Me.109' s and Ju.52.Time attack was delivered: 1210 hours.Place attack was delivered: Over Forêt de Aperlecques. ( France ).Height of enemy: 300 feet.Enemy casualties: One Ju.52 probable ( shared with P/O OGILVIE ).Our casualties: Nil.( r ) GENERAL REPORT:-I was Red Two when my section met a Ju.52 at 300 feet. Red One made two quick attacks on the Ju.52, stopping the centre engine dead, and causing an aileron or large panel to fall off. When RedOne broke waway I attacked the Ju.52 from port above, firing a burst at 50 yards wich caused theport engine to slow up and emit smoke. When last seen the E/A was at 250 feet over an area inwich landing was impossible ( forest ) gradually losing height after vainly trying to pull up into cloud. No return fire was experienced. I claim half a probable in the Ju.52.Half a probable Ju.52.Signed: Malczewski.Pilot Officer ( Polish ).

Could anyone please confirm these losses and give details ?

Many thanks.

Bernard.

[Chris Goss]

Nothing Ju 52-wise but the 109 is believed to have been 7/JG 3 Gefr Hans-Guenther Kaerger killed

[Bernard]

Thank to you Chris.

Bernard.

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Nothing Ju 52-wise but the 109 is believed to have been 7/JG 3 Gefr Hans-Guenther Kaerger killed

The loss in more details

Bf 109F-2 WNr.8143 22.05.41 7./JG3 Gefr. Hans-Günther Kärger (verm.), Luftkampf mit Hurricane, Raum Calais - 100% ws.3+I

Maybe also this loss should be considered (I don't have the exact time for this loss)
Bf 109F-2 WNr.8138 22.05.41 Stab III./JG3 Obfhr. Ulrich Burkhardt (†), Absturz, Fiennes - 100% ws.<+I

best regards,
Tomislav

[Bernard]

Many thaks to you Tomislav.

Bernard.

[Franek Grabowski]

Ok, gents, but unless this was a fake claim, the aircraft should be noted somewhere, at least as damaged, should not it?

[RT]

Even not with the second line units,

"the aircraft should be noted somewhere, "

Are you giving-up with your theory on plot to hide the losses ???


Remi

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Just checked through the Schulen und sonstige loss listings from 22.05.1941 through 30.06.1941, and no fitting loss is listed there.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Bernard]

Good morning,

'Are you giving-up with your theory on plot to hide the losses ???'

In my opinion, P/O D.B.Ogilvie and Sgt E. Malczewski reported exactly what happened and I believe that such men would have never made a "fake" claim.

I am currently searching about R.A.F Rhubarb operations and I am surprised by the quite important number of RAF pilots claims, in the air or on the ground, damaged or destroyed for wich I can' t find corresponding losses on the Luftwaffe side.

So I don' t know about Franek's theory, but if he supposes that Luftwaffe authorities have hidden losses, I would tend to share his opinion especially for the year 1941.

Gentlemen, if any of you have informations regarding Rhubarb Operations I would be grateful for any help.

Best regards.

Bernard.

[Andy Saunders]

Why would the Luftwaffe have "hidden" losses exactly? How and who from? If such a thing happened then it beggars belief that hard evidence of such practices has not surfaced before now, surely!