Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 4th October 2011, 01:59
Oberst Oberst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 378
Oberst is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann View Post
Anders,

As for "Gigi", I jet can't remember posting it: getting old those days;-))

Cheers
Marc
This one. it was marked as 'white 11' but I believe its 'black 7'.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Gigi.jpg (142.6 KB, 141 views)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 4th October 2011, 19:13
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,711
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Thanks Oberst, for posting it.

I remember having seen it, but in which publication?

Anders and Srecko,

Flicking through Hideki Noro's excellent "LO+ST" (2009), I found a"huge" bunch of all dark Bf 109's pics, unfortunately without known W.Nr., as, for that matter, without much details:

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 "Blaue 51", maybe found in Lechfeld, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 169.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Gelbe 17", Salzburg, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 147.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Weisse 6", 13./JG 301, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 175.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-14/AS, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 473", Fürth 1945. Noro 2009, p. 112.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 51", Salzburg 1945. Noro 2009, p. 148. Scan is bad but in the book it's definitely an overall RLM 83 camouflage.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

And as the devil has it, Kemon 01 just posted today in his photo stream on Flickr a great shot of an overturned late-war Bf 109 G "Schwarze 1", as usual without any indication of date and place:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

This pretty much rounds up what I know about those overall RLM 83 camouflaged machines. A last one strikes my mind: Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" found at Deutsch Brod in 1945, and published by Janda and Poruba (2004), Messerschmitt Bf 109s of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod, JaPo, p. 46 - 53.

All told, I'm surprised myself by the comparatively large photographic evidence for those out of the main stream camouflaged machines. One wonders if all were produced by ERLA?

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 4th October 2011, 20:02
Oberst Oberst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 378
Oberst is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Schiffer Publishing - 1992 - Messerschmitt Bf109 F, G, and K. An Illustrated Study - Jochen Prien & Peter Rodeike - ISBN 0887404243

As for Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" I would consider it a very safe bet the most is not all with simular camouflage schemes were produced by Erla.
But I do not think it was a solid RLM 83.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 4th October 2011, 20:54
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 574
Rasmussen is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann View Post
Thanks for your input; may I ask for your source?
Nearly 30 years of research exclusivly on Erla ... your correct W.Nr. for this a/c was 151 965. You find an correct colour profile in the Lorant/ Goyat - book, volume 2, page 194 ... and ... none of the Erla a/c's had an "all - in - all" RLM 83 - camouflage because none of the Erla a/c's had RLM 83 on fuselage (if it was delivered direct by factory and not repainted somewhere).

Best regards
Rasmussen
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 4th October 2011, 20:58
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

I'm certain that all the dark colored G-10's were Erla produced but I don't think that the earlier G's in dark camo are from the same origin. I think they might be from recycled airframes from older aircraft, put together at a repairshop and given a quick dark camo to blend the parts in, not by Erla though.

Unique for these dark Erla G-10's is that there was NO RLM 76 on the entire fuselage, the dark colors went all around. The wings were mostly natural metal with only wooden parts painted RLM76. That is totally in line with the latest RLM instructions for camoflage issued during the war. I got to read up on it but as I recall, these instructions included that the two upper colors were to be applied in a cloudy pattern and be taken down the sides directly over natural metal. A good description of my interpretation of these aircraft actually.

Black 1 is a Bf109G-2 flown in the east by JG54 and repainted in their various greens.

EDIT: Rasmussen posted while I wrote so additionally, what's your take on the colors if not 83? What about the more traditionally camoflaged G-10's from Erla, do you believe them to have been 74/75 up to the end?

Cheers! / Anders
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 4th October 2011, 21:07
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Thank you Marc, I have in meantime arranged few profiles, one top side is visible on our Facebook page
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 4th October 2011, 21:16
Oberst Oberst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 378
Oberst is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel View Post
EDIT: Rasmussen posted while I wrote so additionally, what's your take on the colors if not 83? What about the more traditionally camoflaged G-10's from Erla, do you believe them to have been 74/75 up to the end?

Cheers! / Anders
Good question thats tough to answer. Kind of like Me109G-10 Wr.N. 130 297 flown by Horst Petzschler. There are big disagreements on whether it was painted RLM 74/75 or RLM 75/82.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 4th October 2011, 21:20
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
There are big disagreements on whether it was painted RLM 74/75 or RLM 75/82.
Oberst- any preserved sample or color image? Testimonial of workers or operators.... ?
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 4th October 2011, 21:28
Oberst Oberst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 378
Oberst is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
Oberst- any preserved sample or color image? Testimonial of workers or operators.... ?
No colour images I know of. Nor do I know of any Testimonials. Here is a very good site of it: http://www.forcedlandingcollection.s...136-Bf109.html Even Claes Sundin has two different profiles, one in 74/75 and the other in 75/82(83?).
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 4th October 2011, 21:31
Pilot's Avatar
Pilot Pilot is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Srbija
Posts: 1,545
Pilot is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Thank you Oberst
__________________
Srecko Bradic
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com
Owner: www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum
Owner: www.sreckobradic.com
Owner: www.warplanes-zine.com
Email: srecko.warplane@gmail.com
Skype: sreckobradic
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/LetLet...s/308234397758
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bf 109 in a spin - what was it like? DavidIsby Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 11th July 2010 02:54
Bf 109 in East Coast War Bond Drive, 1944 Richard Muller Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 2nd February 2010 04:47
Losses - III./JG76 in October 1944 Andre Stewart Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 14th October 2009 11:06
Bf 109 E-1s during the Battle of Britain Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 17th June 2006 20:20
Discussion on the air war in Tunisia Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 14 1st April 2005 19:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net