Bf 109 in Polish Campaign 1939

[GuerraCivil]

Although being not Polish (or German), I have always find the German-Polish airwar in September 1939 to have some interest because it was the first large-scale aerial campaign of WW2.

The one thing that interests me is the "baptism of fire" of Bf 109 in Poland. I have read the booklet Messerschmitt Bf 109 C/D In the Polish Campaign 1939 and it gives quite good account of JG 21 and ZG 2 units, which used "Cezars" and "Doras" in Poland.

They achieved also quite a number of confirmed air victories Johannes Gentzen of ZG 2 becoming the first ace of WW2. He was of course not the first Bf 109 ace, because there were earlier Legion Condor aces, but he was the first man to achieve ace status during WW2.

However, I wonder if there were also other Bf 109 units taking actively part in the Polish Campaign? Were "Emils" employed?

[sidney]

If I remember correctly, "Emils" were employed at least with the following Gruppen: I./JG 1, I./JG 76 and I.(J)/LG 2, and II./ZG 1 also (later JGr. 101).

[GuerraCivil]

Originally Posted by sidney

If I remember correctly, "Emils" were employed at least with the following Gruppen: I./JG 1, I./JG 76 and I.(J)/LG 2, and II./ZG 1 also (later JGr. 101).

I wonder if those units were in front line service during the Polish Campaign? I remember to have read from one source that "Emils" were held in rear units for homeland defence and saw practically no combat during the German-Polish war 1939. So my guess is that the combat responsability was left mainly to ZG units (flying Bf 110) and the only active Bf 109 units were JG 21 / ZG 2 flying Bf 109 C/D.

So can we conclude Emil units were fairly passive in Polish Campaign and thus had no air victories (and also no combat losses) against Poles?

[Rasmussen]

Regarding Prien, JFV volume 1, were used (Stärkemeldungen 02. September 1939, and later): I./JG 1 (48 Bf 109 E), I./JG 21 (28 Bf 109 D), II.(J)/186 (T) (24 Bf 109 B), II./ZG 1 (39 Bf 109 E), 1./JG 2 (12 Bf 109 E – used only 10.–13. September 1939), I(J):/ LG 2 (36 Bf 109 E), Stab/LG 2 (3 Bf 109 E), I./ZG 2 (43 Bf 109 D), I./JG 76 (45 Bf 109 E), I./JG 77 (36 Bf 109E ).

[GuerraCivil]

Have you any knowledge of the combat records of the above Bf 109 units - confirmed claims and combat losses?

Polish historian Cynk mentions that 13 Bf 109 (IIRC) were lost in air combat during the Polish Campaign 1939. All that comes to my mind more spesifically is that JG 21 lost two Bf 109 D in 1.9.1939, when combat damaged planes crash-landed to Polish-held territory and pilots were taken prisoners.

[sidney]

Perhaps you want to consult some specialised literature on the subject yourself? Prien, Stemmer and others, Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934-1945, Part I, contains the information you are looking for.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

The best thing is to invest some money in Polish book written by M. Emmerling, Luftwaffe nad Polską 1939. Jagflieger cz.I, Aramgedon, Gdynia 2002. You have all what you need about this topic and even more.

Regards
mw

BTW
Text 100 % in Polish

[GuerraCivil]

The main problem with Emmerling´s book is that I do not understand Polish. Must be in English or in German.

The second problem is that there have been heated debates on Emmerling´s book - not only in this forum, but also in axishistory forum. One commentator claimed that Emmerling is a German historian (sic) and that he has too strong German bias. Hopefully his book is translated some day in English/German - I should read it and know his sources - it is only after that when I can make a judgement of my own.

[ouidjat]

Dear GuerraCivil,

You absolutely MUST follow Rasmussen steps when he gives an advice like that:
"I'm interested on history of Czech and Polish aircrafts and I've learned to read fluently Czech and Polish documents. Near the same with Dutch and Russian language."
Source:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=38943&page=2
Post 12.
He is an expert i.e. a man who owns a lot of documents or who has access to a lot of documents.
And like many experts who is unable to use his own imagination and/or to make the link between this and that calling that method "mere speculation".

All that, like a perfect expert, making statements with a touch of contempt.

I apologise guys and dear John but that's enough and not only Rasmussen must know what I think but ALL good people of this forum.

Best and kind regards, Franck.

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

... and not only Rasmussen must know what I think but ALL good people of this forum.

Dear Franck,

in principle I'm not interested to know what do you think (that's not my interest of research, sorry) ... it seems your new hobby to hack the threads with your private mental problems with me ... that's a great pity.

Best regards
Rasmussen