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Old 11th August 2011, 01:53
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Looking for sources for the Stab StG2 Black Jesau Cross on a white shield on any Ju87B during the 1939-40 period

Hello,

I'm aware of some images in old publications showing what appears to be movie film frames of a Stuka with a black "Jesau" cross superimposed on a white shield with a thin dark outline that has been identified all the way back to the old Karl Ries books as the insignia of Stab StG2. These images are not very clear.

My questions are:

1) According to Ketley and Rolfe, this was the insignia for Stab StG2 on Ju87Rs and Ds from 1940 to 1943. Can anyone point me to a source photo(s) showing this black "crusader" cross on a white shield with a thin black or red outline on any a/c with a fully identifiable a/c code?

2) Since the photo of the Stuka with this insignia on the nose appears to have come from a movie film, can anyone point out a source for this film clip, perhaps on the internet?

Note: This is not to be confused with the white cross on a red shield that both Ries and Ketley/Rolfe erroneously ID as the insignia of Stab StG2. This was, in fact, the insignia of 7./StG2.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
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Old 11th August 2011, 04:25
G.R.Morrison G.R.Morrison is offline
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Re: Film source for the Stab St.G. 2 with 'Crusader's shield'

The in-flight motion picture film you refer was "Stukas" directed by Karl Ritter.

There may be excerpts of this movie on YouTube, but I doubt they'll have it in its entirety.

I watched the complete film in the IWM's film archive nearly twenty years ago... The time period covered includes the French campaign, and concludes with the cast starting their first mission against England, singing the theme song.

This is beyond your preferred time period, but there's a great in-flight photo in the ECPA archive of Paul-Werner Hozzel's Ju 87D-1 "T6+AA" with the Crusader shield badge. It's reproduced in Herbert Leonard's _Stukas!_ on p.82 (Heimdahl, 1997)

GRM
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Old 11th August 2011, 19:44
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Looking for sources for the Stab StG2 Black Jesau Cross on a white shield on any Ju87B during the 1939-40 period

Thanks GRM,

That confirms my suspicion that the photo originated from a movie film. Do you know if the motion picture was a documentary or was it a fictionalized war movie. In other words, do the film sequences show real Stuka units in their actual markings, or have these been censored out for wartime release?

Does anyone know where a CD of this movie might be obtained? Or, has anyone seen it on the internet anywhere?

There were no Ju87Ds used during our1939-40 research period, so the ECPA photo of Hozzel's T6+AA won't help. But I would very much like to document an a/c with these markings during the WC or BoB. Surely photos exist somewhere.

Still looking for further help here.

Regards,
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Old 11th August 2011, 19:51
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Bf 110 Bf 110 is offline
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Re: Looking for sources for the Stab StG2 Black Jesau Cross on a white shield on any Ju87B during the 1939-40 period

Hello Larry,

I guess this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk23G...eature=related is the movie you are looking for.

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Old 11th August 2011, 22:33
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Looking for sources for the Stab StG2 Black Jesau Cross on a white shield on any Ju87B during the 1939-40 period

GRM & Bf110,

Yep, this is probably at least one source for this film. I didn't watch the whole 2 hr film, but at about the 12 min mark there is a view of a real Stuka in flight with the Jesau "Crusader" insignia in question (port side), while my photo shows the starboard front side. Except for this marking, the rest of the ones I saw were all bogus. I suspect that that the film intersperses real film footage from combat cameramen with the staged shots of models or a/c with phony markings.

This makes me think that there is other footage out there, perhaps from German newsreels of the time, showing this and other Stukas from the 1939-1940 period. If anyone knows of any other film clips that would be helpful in our EOE Project for the Stuka part, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

In the meantime, I'm still searching for good images of any kind showing this Stab./StG2 insignia on Ju87Bs.

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