Graf von Vitzthum

[Dean M. Wick]

Good afternoon: Wondering if anyone could clarify whether the then Hptm. Joachim Graf von Vitzthum of Stab II/JG77, who was KIA in Russia 25.9.41, is the same Oblt. von Vitzthum who made a claim 28.9.39 with then JGr.152 (later I/ZG52)? If so, anything on date of transfer? As always, Any comments greatly appreciated. Thanks Dean.

[Doug Stankey]

It appears to be the same fellow. Here is what career data we have in our files.

VITZTHUM von ECKSTÄDT, Joachim-Friedrich, Graf.
(DOB: 01.07.11).
01.04.30 pre-military pilot training with D.V.S. (to 30.09.31).
01.10.31 entered service with the Heer (Kavallerie).
01.01.35 trf to the Luftwaffe and sent to Jagdfliegerschule Schleissheim for refresher training.
04.03.35 trf to Aufkl.Fliegerschule Hildesheim.
16.04.35 trf to Aufkl.Gr. 124 (Kassel) as a pilot.
01.08.35 for temporary duty, ordered to Fliegertechnische Schule Jüterbog for a training course (to 31.10.35).
01.03.37 trf to III./JG 234 (Düsseldorf).
01.07.37 appt Kp.-Chef in III./JG 234.
01.08.38 appt Staka in III./JG 234.
01.11.38 appt Staka in I./ZG 143 (Illesheim).
01.01.39 promo to Hptm.
05.01.39 attended the Höh.Lw.-Schule Berlin-Gatow (7. Lehrgang) (to 31.03.39).
01.05.39 Generalstab training at the Luftkriegsakademie Berlin-Gatow (to 23.08.39).
24.08.39 for temporary duty ordered to Stab/Luftgaukdo. XVII as Ia op 1 (to 05.10.39).
06.10.39 for temporary duty ordered to Abt. Qu. in Stab/Luftgaukdo. VI (to 02.06.40).
03.06.40 appt Ic in Stab/Gen.d.Lw. beim Ob.d.H.
07.08.40 appt Ic in Stab/VIII. Fliegerkorps.
09.06.41 trf to Ob.d.L./RLM pool and ordered temporarily to JFS 1 (to 24.07.41).
25.07.41 trf to Erg.Gruppe/JG 77.
25.09.41 Hptm. in Stab II./JG 77, KIA – shot down by enemy aircraft in the Perekop area.

We hope that this answers your questions.

HLdZ
DGS

[Dean M. Wick]

Thanks Doug, We can always count on you and Larry to fill the gaps when you can. Most grateful.. Cheers Dean

[Nokose]

Dean,
The unit responsible for his death seems to be the I-16 and Yak-1 equiped 32 IAP ChF. Hard to say which pilot unless you know the time of day. The aces Mikhail Vasilevich Avdeev claimed 1 Bf 109 on the 25th but Arshak Asturovich Allakherdov claimed 2 Bf 109. Allakherdov claimed his last at 18:07 (Moscow). All were in the area of Chervonyy Chaban. Graf von Vitzthum was mentioned in Miroslav Morozov's book (Russian) on Sevastopol.They both flew the Yak-1.

[Tom Semenza]

Some interesting points about this claim on 28.09.39 as mentioned in Fledgling Eagles. First of all Vitzthum appears to have left JGr. 152 in May 1939 according to Doug Stankey above (Prien in Jagdfliegerverbände der Luftwaffe, Teil 1 says July 1939.) Further there is no listing for this claim in the Prien work. Possibly Vitzthum was on attachment to his old unit from his staff position, but the claim, if confirmed, does not seem to have been credited to JGr. 152. Another anomaly is that in Fledgling Eagles he is shown with the rank of Oberleutnant at the time of his claim, while Doug says that he had been promoted to Hauptmann at the beginning of 1939.

Tom

[Dean M. Wick]

Been off line for a bit.. Thanks to both of you for replies. Tom, I agree, there doesn't seem to be a fit with the info Doug has kindly provided. Any speculation on Chris Shores source on this claim? It had to have come from somewhere, but Tony Woods list doesn't show it either. As we are on the topic, I'm also wondering about Shores reference to Oblt. Hans Wiggers, later of JG51, and a claim attributed to him on 20.9.39. Can't find any other reference linking him to JGr152. It is not my intent to discredit Chris Shores excellent "Fledgling Eagles", it is a fantastic work on the early war period, I'm just curious...plain and simple! Regards. Dean.