Morane MS.226 Photo?

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Q116-Foto-We...IAAOSwUvxeaIrq


there is a photo of either a Morane MS.225 or MS.226 in french naval service.According to Lucien Morareauin les Aeronefs de l'aviation maritime P.387 THE ms.225 was not in naval service after 1935, so logically it is a MS.226 in the photo.Hoever, the machine in the photo does not clearly show a wheel as the MS.226 did. Any views on the aircraft shown. If an MS.225 which unit?


Regards,


Clint

[Lucien]

Hello,


This is not a MS but one of the protypes of the Gourdou-Leseurre 521 dive bomber used in 1940 at Cazaux test center.

[Von Alles]

And what is the plane behind ?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Clint

It seems the French continue to create headaches (at least for me.... )

I don't think this is a Morane 225 (or 226) at all. The reasons are:
a) the landing gear is quite different (not single photo exists of either type with this landing gear)
b) the three-blade propeller (as above, none ever seen before)
c) the straight wing (all M-S designs between the war had a broken upper wing)

I don't think the aircraft is a production model. It has no "buzz number" under the wings. It has no unit markings what so ever. It carries mixed national markings, Aeronautique Maritime under the wings but Armée de l'Air on the fuselage. All this indicates a prototype of some sort.

Behind is one of the Loire-Nieuport 161 prototypes. They all seem to have gone for testing with the CEMA (yes I have found it now) and I have no fate for any of them. But perhaps the photo was taken at CEMA as well?

Having said all this I have no idea of what it is we have in the foreground...

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


I hope the headache passes quickly.


With regard to the id of the aircraft in the foreground, I believe I'm correct in saying the Lucien that answered earlier in the thread is Lucien Morareau, so we can regard the id as a Gourdou Leseurre GL.521 as definitive.


One must as the great american thinker E Cartman might put it "respect his authorotah"


Another image of the GL.521 http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww1/gl521/gl521-1.jpg




Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ha, ha Clint

It took me quite a while to write my answer since I also checked a number of books while doing so. Never noticed the answers which came in between.

Oddly enough I checked the G-L company since I saw a resemblance to their designs. Looking at the only photo I had (in Le Trait d'Union and part 54 of a series of articles prepared by Charles Claveau) I actually discared the GL-521 as not "good enough".

But since Lucien M. is not only very good at all things Naval he is also way ahead of me when it comes to identifications. (Thanks Lucien!!)

And yes indeed, headache now gone...

Cheers
Stig

[rof120]

The original (?) design of the hangar could give a good clue on the location but I know almost nothing on hangars. Hello hangar experts out there? Lucien wrote it's Cazaux so I believe him.

Below and aft of the engine cowling I think we can see a fork having the task of leading a bomb, dropped in a dive, outside the propeller disc, similar to the fork on the Ju 87 "Stuka".

At the time only recent aircraft designs had a three-blade propeller like both types seen here (even "Hurricanes" had a two-blade propeller at the beginning.). The AC in the background has a light-coloured straight line on each propeller-blade to improve security of the ground crews. This was not common at the time either. (Prototype of the well-known Loire-Nieuport LN 401/410 dive-bomber eventually refused by the Armée de l'Air and used in action by the French naval aviation with very heavy losses to Flak?).

[Lucien]

Although both preserie LN 41 were also used at Cazaux, the aircraft behind the Gourdou is not one of them but the prototype of the Loire-Nieuport 161 single seat fighter.

[rof120]

Thanks for this correction: interesting and useful. So it's the LN 161 fighter prototype.

Not to be found in William Green's famous booklet "FIGHTERS", volume one (1960), which is very old but quite comprehensive. Does any detailed description of LN 161 exist? Where?

[musec04]

Hello,


Well this is pretty comprehensive:


aviadrix.blogspot.com/2012/01/le-nieuport-161-le-favori-initial-1ere.html


Regards,


Clint