Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14th August 2019, 14:43
Andy Fletcher's Avatar
Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 769
Andy Fletcher
I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Can anyone tell me if it was only the 2nd staffel of I./JG 1 that engaged American bombers on 18 Mar 43 or did 1./JG 1 and 3./JG 1 also fly. JG 1 volume II, by Eric Mombeeck, only mentions 2./JG 1 but I wondered if later works add any additional detail.

Also was the B-24 claim by Lt Dieter Gerhardt (2./JG 1) on this day confirmed as he was KIA in on the same sortie.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher
__________________
Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th August 2019, 22:47
Rottler Rottler is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ludwigshafen, Germany
Posts: 1,215
Rottler will become famous soon enough
Re: I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Hello Andy,

according to JFV 10/II all three Staffeln of I./JG 1 were engaged. The 1./JG 1 lost Oblt Schmude near Heligoland (Bf 109 G-1/R2 WNr. 14 145).
The claim of Lt Gerhardt was not confirmed.

Regards
Leo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15th August 2019, 04:54
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 894
Nick Hector will become famous soon enoughNick Hector will become famous soon enough
Re: I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post
Can anyone tell me if it was only the 2nd staffel of I./JG 1 that engaged American bombers on 18 Mar 43 or did 1./JG 1 and 3./JG 1 also fly. JG 1 volume II, by Eric Mombeeck, only mentions 2./JG 1 but I wondered if later works add any additional detail.

Also was the B-24 claim by Lt Dieter Gerhardt (2./JG 1) on this day confirmed as he was KIA in on the same sortie.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher
Hi Andy,

On my database, I have Gerhard's victim listed as:

Possibly "Eager Beaver" of 93rd BG, seen to drop out of formation but made it back to UK. Pilot was Frank Lown

Frey and Knoke also claimed, their victims listed as follows:

330th BS, 93rd BG. 1 loss: 41-23666 "Hot Freight". Lt. Howard E "Tarzan" Kleinstuber and 7 crewmen KIA. 1 man POW. Attributed by US sources to Bf110s, with 10 men KIA and 1 POW by Joe Baugher's serials website. One other B-24 lost, not positively identified. Plus one "Viermot" lost to flak. Boiten and Bowman definitely attribute "Hot Freight" to Knoke. Also damaged was "Shoot Luke" of George Murphy which accompanied "Eager Beaver" back to UK

Regards,

Nick
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th August 2019, 11:30
Andy Fletcher's Avatar
Andy Fletcher Andy Fletcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 769
Andy Fletcher
Re: I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Hi Leo,

Thank you for looking up the information for me, very much appreciated.

Nick,

Thank you for the additional information.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher
__________________
Per Speculationem Impellor ad Intelligendum
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th August 2019, 11:38
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,810
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Thanks Nick

Just out of curiosity, the "other B-24 lost" (not positively identified), from where comes this information?

It is not listed by Roger Freeman in his Mighty Eighth volume and not in Bishop/Hay's book either.

Since it seems all units this day had a single target (Vegesack) could it be some confusion with the B-17s lost/salvaged?

I take it you already have the s/n for both Eager Beaver and Shoot Luke. If not I will send them over in a jiffy (I like the word jiffy, being a Hardy /Laurel fan, so I use it whenever I can.... )

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th August 2019, 13:35
Rottler Rottler is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ludwigshafen, Germany
Posts: 1,215
Rottler will become famous soon enough
Re: I./JG 1 on 18 Mar 43

Hello,

in JFV 10/II the claim list of I./JG 1 includes three entries for the 2./JG 1 on 18 March 1943:
Lt Heinz Knoke B-24 (2.) 15.14 10 km southeast of Helgoland confirmed
Oblt Hugo Frey B-24 (6.) 15.18 north of Wangerooge confirmed
Lt Dieter Gerhardt B-24 15.37 area Heligoland not confirmed.
In JFV 10/I is noted (footnote 127 on page 48):
"Der Abschuss von Lt Gerhardt ist nur in den Aufzeichnungen von Heinz Knoke erwähnt; er erscheint weder in den Unterlagen des XII. Fl.-Korps noch in den Abschusslisten des RLM, dürfte also nicht zur Anerkennung eingereicht worden sein" = the claim for Lt Gerhardt was obviously not submitted for confirmaton.

Regards
Leo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe Nick Beale Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 255 31st August 2021 00:38
Lw. Transport units in Russia summer 1943 Pawel Burchard Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 11th December 2014 10:10
Info needed on Viterbo Airport in 1944 harrison987 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 19 29th November 2012 13:24
Frontreparaturbetrieb GL 2565 Junkers edNorth Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 20 24th March 2012 14:38
Heinz Baer's vic total NickM Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 12 21st February 2010 16:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net