Me 109's or Fw 190's?

[brianx13]

I have conflicting reports on which fighters attacked a particular B-17 raid. The raid was the 384th BG / 544 BS from Grafton Underwood and the target was Villacoublay, France. It was June 26, 1943. The bombers left at 4:00 PM (1600 hrs). There was not much flak (weather problems) but the fighters showed up just fine. They must have gotten to my grandfathers plane (42-30031) early because they had just started their run on the target and two engines were in flames. The EE report lists both FW's (typed in side column) and Me109's (handwritten by my grandfather). Maybe both planes attacked, I am not sure. I am trying to find the ones that shot the B-17 down and the fighters that were shot down by grandfather (the Me 109's). The idea is put the events of June 26th into a timeline as to how these two groups ended up in the skies over France one fateful day. I have had some help from this forum already and if I can figure this out I beleive it will aid them further. I hope I have listed everything needed for the puzzle. I have the plane's crash site as:

"F-RAGAI'NE. BEZU. la.FORET EURE.FRANCE"

6km west of Gisors / à 6 km à l'ouest de Gisors : according to B17-france.org (also lists FW 190's as the attackers).

Thanks again,
Brian

[Heuser]

Hi Brian,

according to Bishop / Hey, a/c 42-30031 was damaged on No. 2 engine and rudder by Flak, before fighters knocked out No. 1 engine. The crashplace is given with "Bernouville near Gisors, between Rouen and Beauvais."

Here are some possible claimants of this a/c, if it was not listed as "Flak"-claim:


26.06.43 Ofw. Willi Stratmann 12./JG 2 B-17 �� 0155 / 05 Ost: 6.000 m

26.06.43 Fw. Martin Brendel 1./JG 2 B-17 �� 15 km. E. Lisieux: 6.000 m

26.06.43 Ltn. Fritz Karch 6./JG 2 B-17 �� Flugplatz St. Gâtien: 7.ooo m

26.06.43 Ofw. Immerl 2./JG 105 B-17 �� CE 4: 2.000 m.

26.06.43 Maj. Josef Priller Stab/JG 26 B-17 �� Le Tréport-Dieppe: 7.000 m.

26.06.43 Ofw. Kurt Goltzsch 5./JG 2 B-17 �� östl. Dieppe: 6.500 m

Hope this helps

Heuser

[brianx13]

It does and I appreciate your assistance. Is it listed anywhere which German planes were lost that day as well?

[Heuser]

11./JG 26 lost one Bf 109 G-3 (Serial No. 16253) in combat with the fighter escort near Dieppe, Lt. Gottfried Schmidt bailed out.

Further JG 2 lost at least three a/c, but I've no reason listed for two of them. The third one was also lost in combat with P-47.

No idea about losses of other units.

Regards

Heuser

[Andy Saunders]

Originally Posted by brianx13

I have conflicting reports on which fighters attacked a particular B-17 raid. The raid was the 384th BG / 544 BS from Grafton Underwood and the target was Villacoublay, France. It was June 26, 1943. The bombers left at 4:00 PM (1600 hrs). There was not much flak (weather problems) but the fighters showed up just fine. They must have gotten to my grandfathers plane (42-30031) early because they had just started their run on the target and two engines were in flames. The EE report lists both FW's (typed in side column) and Me109's (handwritten by my grandfather). Maybe both planes attacked, I am not sure. I am trying to find the ones that shot the B-17 down and the fighters that were shot down by grandfather (the Me 109's). The idea is put the events of June 26th into a timeline as to how these two groups ended up in the skies over France one fateful day. I have had some help from this forum already and if I can figure this out I beleive it will aid them further. I hope I have listed everything needed for the puzzle. I have the plane's crash site as:

"F-RAGAI'NE. BEZU. la.FORET EURE.FRANCE"

6km west of Gisors / à 6 km à l'ouest de Gisors : according to B17-france.org (also lists FW 190's as the attackers).

Thanks again,
Brian

Brian

Following our exchanges and PM's regarding "Jane" I was amazed to read this query of yours!

For a while, a couple of years ago, I lived just seven or eight km's from here and researched a number of crashes in the area. I know there is a photo of the crash and I think I can put you in touch with people who may be able to help you. I dont know the exact crash location, but it wouldnt be hard to find out!

PM me.

Andy Saunders