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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#41
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I don't know if this is because the Americans were better pilots than those in the Desert AF. I don't think so; it would rather be the opposite because the pilots in the Desert AF were more experienced. Probably the American tactic of operating in larger formations is an important explanation. If we examine the circumstances which led to the so-called "Palm Sunday Massacre" on 18 April 1943 (when a formation of Ju 52s was nearly annihilated en route from Tunis to Sicily), we will find the following: The RAF and the USAAF mounted a joint fighter sweep. While RAF 92 Sqn. despatched 12 Spitfires, US 57th FG despatched no less than 46 Warhawks in one huge mass. The Germans assigned an unusually high number of fighters to escort the Ju 52s (15 Bf 109s and 5 Bf 110s/Me 210s), and not least in view of this, the American tactic of concentrating large numbers to one and the same mission clearly was very effective. If the Americans would have despatched, let's say 30 Warhawks less on this mission, we probably never would have heard of anything called the "Palm Sunday Massacre". Please, however, take the US fighter claims in Tunisia with a grain of salt. They made some vastly inflated claims. Like on 3 April 1943, when 52 FG claimed to have shot down 13 Ju 87s. In reality only four Ju 87s were lost as a result of that combat. The escorting Bf 109 pilots of I./JG 77 claimed to have shot down two Spitfires, and I think both can be confirmed with US loss statistics. |
#42
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Gents
Generally you are comparing apples and oranges - Allied fighters were tasked a variety of operations including sweeps, escorts, ground attacks, etc. Therefore they were much often in an unfavourable position in case of German attack by units generally involved only in hunting. Quote:
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#43
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“The 57th Group sent 46 P-40s . . . with a top cover of 12 RAF Spitfires from 92 Squadron. . .” Stop this before it goes down again, please, Franek. Just stop it! |
#44
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Christer
This is a quote of yours. Quote:
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I do not find in your post any information that the Spitfires were top cover and judging by your another statement I understand you did that misinformation intentionally. Quote:
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#45
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After a day of working on vBulletin, I'll just say that my patience is running pretty thin.
IMHO you are simply trying to provoke any reaction, from eachother and from me...both of you.
__________________
Ruy Horta 12 O'Clock High! And now I see with eye serene The very pulse of the machine; A being breathing thoughtful breath, A traveller between life and death; |
#46
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Ruy and Franek, I have no comments. Please let's continue only the discussion on the topic, Luftwaffe fighter losses in Tunisia.
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#47
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Ruy
I simply do not see a point in a discussion where facts are twisted to prove one's thesis. Please check (outdated) Fighters Over Tunisia that Wing shows were nothing extraordinary, dates - 20 and 22 April, PFT or 145 Sqn. Point about missions' profiles is also very important - at the time escorts were stuck to the bombers, so this obviously inflicted more losses than successes from the fighter point of view. But for the staff the success was to drop another ton of bombs and not to down another Messerschmitt. A different perspective. |
#48
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I am going to lock this topic for the moment...
...I think postings have gotten a little OT and too personal.
In the future we need to stick to facts, backed up by data, and topic and leave the personal opinions, especially of another forum member, aside for the purposes of discussion. |
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