Luftwaffe 'He-113' loss Brest, September 13/14 1941

[wwrsimon]

Hello everyone

On the evening of September 13th/14th 1941, Whitley Z6978 of 78 Sqn claimed an 'He-113' shot down by the tail gunner just after the Whitley had bombed Brest.

There is no combat report on The National Archives website, but the 78 Sqn ORB Form 541 gives the altitude as 16,000 feet and the postion as 48.23ºN, 04.40ºW, which is in the commune of Telgruc-sur-Mer, 15km SSE of Brest. The fighter was seen to fall in flames through the cloud by the pilot of Z6978, and this was corroborated by the pilot of another 78 Sqn Whitley.

I've heard before about mis-identifaction of Luftwaffe fighters as the mythical 'He-113'. So is it possible to identify the actual fighter involved?

Many thanks,

Simon

[Seaplanes]

It is easy to think that He 113 is a misprint of He 115. However, no aircraft of this type was reported damaged around the date 13-14. September 1941. This said, the Staffel 2./506 was based in Brest and 1./906 in Hourtin at this time, both equipped With He 115.
Unfortunately I do not have KTB material for any of these two units or Stab Küstenfliegergruppe 406 or the FdL West.

[sidney]

I don't think that it was the case of misprint - the British intelligence featured the aircraft in its report on the Luftwaffe No. AIR 40/237 that was completed in 1940. There, apart from the top speed and the aircraft technical details, it was also noted that the aircraft had been in production. Consequently, reports of He 113 aircraft encountered and shot down were apparently filled in throughout the early years of the war.

Which single-engine aircraft was reported that I cannot tell - if it was German, most likely a Bf 109.

[Maxim1]

The Soviet fighters claimed a significant number of 'He-113' during the first year of the war, which eventually turned out to be a Bf 109F.

[andy bird]

Simon,

I've "Sgt Bell captaining Whitley Z6978 of 78 Squadron, had a narrow escape when, on the return journey at 16,000 feet, he came under attack from an enemy night-fighter, it was unseen by his gunners until it opened fire from 150 yards astern and from slightly beneath. The burst of fire caused only minor damage and, as the fighter darted underneath the Whitley, the rear gunner managed to get three to four short well aimed bursts of 100 rounds. Fortunately the enemy aircraft only made one pass. Bell and his crew were able to resume their journey "although we're somewhat shaken by those few shattering seconds and the longer realisation that we may have all bought it," recalled Bell.

Sgt Bell eased his Whitley onto the ground at Kirton in Lindsay for a look over before resuming their flight back to Middleton St George."

Regards

Andy Bird

[wwrsimon]

Thank you for the replies everyone. As I mentioned, I've read before about fighter pilots and bomber gunners claiming an 'He-113'. Funny how the Allies could have been persuaded by the German propoganda machine that it actually existed!

There's an account in the book 'Into the Night Sky' by Paul Tweddle about RAF Middleton St George, and the 'He-113' is mentioned in an article in the Berwickshire News of January 9th 1943, which reports the award of the D.F.M. to Z6978's rear gunner Sgt James Davidson.

I'd guess it must have been a single-engined aircraft that Z6978 claimed - as Sidney said, so it would most likely have been a Bf-109. Would they have been used as night fighters in September 1941?

Regards

Simon

[Merlin]

Simon,

the only nightfighter unit in September 1941 equipped with the Bf 109E was 10./NJG 1 based in the Rhine area. There were no single seat nightfighters in France during that time.

Also there was no Bf 109 of Bf 110 loss reported in that area for that two days.

[wwrsimon]

Apologies for reviving this thread, but I'm wondering if a Luftwaffe loss, of any type, matches the details for this encounter?

Many thanks

Simon